I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Water fasting.

I read that the first three days were to be the hardest (hunger wise). I did not feel it much. Just a little. Nothing overbearing. Just drink the water when you feel some need for something to go in your mouth.

Mornings I am bright and mostly energetic. Evenings are a bit on the low energy side. Twice in the evenings I felt apathetic for a bit.

My face, feet and hands got a bit skinnier. The stomach and intestines pulled in the abdominal wall and with that the outer stomach. It felt as if I had a vacuum inside tugging on me for the first few days. I guess by now organs have shifted.

Water fast is supposed to be continued until there is a feeling of really strong hunger that comes one day. For most people it is about day 30-40.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Why?




ten characters

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Good luck. Be strong, but be smart.

No salt?

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Why? Detoxification and weight loss. I have a higher weight than I am supposed to. I eat home cooked / organic. But I like sweets and sitting at the desk all day even with bouts to the gym for lifting weights 2 times a week is not really the best for a slim physique. I ate all kinds of junk when younger and do not want it in my system. According to a research on fasting the pesticide residue leaves the body later than day 15.

No salt, just distilled water. The body is pretty good at keeping it's electrolyte balance and with all the fat cells it is destroying in the process it gets all the sodium back it needs.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

fasting for weight loss is not smart, and can be boderline eating-disorder. detox and resetting the system yes, OK

I master clense once a year, to reset my system, absolutely nothing to do with weight loss

be carefull of the distilled water, it can leach the minerals from your system.

what's your body fat %?

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I know you are called Infidel but try to be open to spiritual influences during your fast.
They may become a part of your equation.

For what it's worth....

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Fasting is not necessary for detox.

Certain nutrients are necessary for the body to perform its elimination processes correctly.

You are doing more harm than good, at least from a purely physiological standpoint.

If you are just trying to become empathetic with those that do not have enough to eat, then I'm sure you are growing by leaps and bounds.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Mostly detox. I lost 25 pounds via exercise and diet. I have another 25 to go and I plateaued even when I increased intensity. I then had other stuff to do and decreased intensity but kinda kept to the same weight. Still same 25 pounds hanging around. I think it is because of some toxins in me. As weight decreased I had some weird conditions like skin dryness and joint pain. Which I think is because the toxins in me became less diluted. So when it is over and I lose weight and manage to keep some off after, great. If it goes back up I hope I will have easier time going forward.

BMI around 25

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

did the colon cleanse thingy a number of times a few years back. water very often (does indeed knock back hunger), but on a vitamin and cleanser routine also. the 1st time was rough, but following times were easy. got a little weaker and concentration dropped markedly. fasting is very healthful and is therefore included in many popular religions. that and giving blood (red cross, leeches, etc...)

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

i didn't think these regimens were for the purpose of weight loss. my weight always returned within a few weeks. usually started out 195 and ended 178-9. detox is very good whether or not the weight stays off, of course

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I read your original post at 450 words per minute.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZING!

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I had no idea we had so many fat guys around here.

What with the computer jobs and such, I guess I was just naive.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

try focusing on your body fat %, you can get some calipers and measuring tape for pretty cheap. The scale does not determine what you eat, what you eat determines the scale.

BMI is a joke.

go here, and read "So you want to lose fat"
http://forums.menshealth.com/eve/for...rm/f/295109121

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

If you try to make it 30 or 40 days you may very well die. I've read of a general rule of 3's

3 minutes without air
3 days without water
3 weeks without food

and your DEAD. though if you have some fat stored up I'm sure you could go a little longer. Just be cautious, organs can shut down

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

That is a long time to go without food.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I have a friend who fasted for over 40 days and damaged his brain functions.
Haven't seen him in years but back then he would pirouette through the streets playing an imaginary violin, mumbling to himself. Every once in a while he would become cognizant and blurt out the most amazing and poignant observations, then suddenly revert back to mumbling inanities.
Be careful... there's a tipping point, where if you slide past, you may not be able to return. From there, you'll either become a ward of the state, or someones pet monkey.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I'm my own pet monkey.

Bad Monkey!

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I think cleansing is good.
But isn't there a problem when people who are starving for a long period and then start eating again. I can't recall what the problem is but I think it has something to do with the body not being able to digest food properly.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

There is an exit regimen. You start from liquids and then get to soft water fruit and boiled veggies and pureed stuff and then get back to eating normal healthy stuff.

There is a whole forum for water fasting.

http://curezone.com/forums/f.asp?f=335

This thread in Survival section jest to show that if there is clean water you can survive pretty long without food. I will update on my process periodically.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Please, public displays of personal monkey punishment is bad form. :shocked_ma:

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

do a juice diet or something - yuou should have some food - Break-fast and all.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Studies have shown that eating all the protein and fat you can eat results in faster weight loss than starvation dieting. This is because starvation dieting causes the body to go into starvation mode and it tries to preserve body fat. Whereas, eating protein and fat fools the body into using up body fat. Since consuming of fat causes a feeling of fullness, the body supplements by using its own reserves. This is from the Atkins diet and personal experience. Interestingly, it also lowers cholesterol and eliminates the need for insulin (as long as carbs are curtailed). What seems to really cause weight gain is processed carbohydrates, rather than fats, because it is easier for the body to convert carbs to energy than to use its own reserves.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

A lot of truth in this.

http://www.t-nation.com/

The t-dawg diet is based around this.
http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=473067

Anyways good luck to you Infidel.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I find it funny when people sound all knowledgeable and stuff about fasting.

One question.....how many other mammals or animals can you name that electively starve themselves??

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

30 or 40 days is far too long, especially for your first fast. You are liable to get sick.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

The ten from Long Kesh mostly made it between eight and nine weeks. Sands lasting 66 days.
But Hurson became unable to keep water in his system after only about 5 1/2 weeks and died of dehydration soon thereafter. 46 days in total.
Keep in mind these were mostly healthy young men in their 20's.
M.O. is that forcing your body to cannibalize your own fat is a lazy shortcut way to lose weight and besides being potentially harmful, probably won't have long lasting results. But I haven't read up too much on it so wtf do I know? Good luck with anyhow.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I have the ability to lose weight pretty fast. I swing between 210 all the way down to 140. The best way I have learned is to put yourself on an 800-1000 calorie diet with exercise. I know people generally have a negative view of starvation diets but I have found them to work amazingly. I would eat thinks like lean hamburgers etc. Two hamburgers a day and you feel ok. I worked a stocking job last time I did it so didn't need to exercise. It helps your metabolism stay up there. When you feel lazy / low energy go take a walk.

Also through meditation I was able to achieve a state where I never felt hungry and didn't have any cravings. The more relaxed and less agitated you are the more successful your diet will be. The psychological battle is the hardest.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

GOOD FOR YOU!!! EXCELLENT! If people have not tried this before they should probably not offer advice. I fasted for 40 days on raw coconut juice and Ginger water. It was the best time of my life, I lifted heavy weights everyday, and was built like a mack truck toward the end. Your body will naturally eat and rid itself of toxins, cancerous tissue, and excess fat before it catabolizes anything. You've motivated me, i think I will start a three day raw food cleansing and then fast for ??? days. I'll keep you posted. Good luck and just trust your body. If anyone offers advice, ask to see a picture of their body, if they don't look healthy, ignore them.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

^^ big difference between a juice diet and a water/starvation diet. You were at least putting in some calories and not completely starving yourself.

juice fast is the way to go IMO...healthy and won't be a health risk for short periods. Juice fruits - green veggies and anything else you want - you will lose more weight and feel amazingly healthy - as opposed to killing yourself with a water fast. Most "fasts" mean not to eat during the day - again "break-fast"

Starvation diets will cause your body to start eating the best pieces first - such as your vital freaking organs...even if you have plenty of fat hanging around.

Enjoy the gallstones! Seriously I hope you look at some healthier alternatives.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Not sure on the detoxification part but the weight loss part is pretty simple. You are taking in more calories than you are using. If you have stagnated in your weight loss you need to change up your program to keep you body guessing more.

T-nation is a great site to use as a resource. Some no joke people there with the credentials and real world experience to back it up.

Look at an Atkins style diet, get into some Olympic style lifting, and start doing some road work (ie 100 yard wind sprints, biking, distance running, etc.). The weight will come off if you stick to it and push yourself. Lossing weight is a total lifestyle and mindset change. Working hard for 10 weeks and then going back to your old ways won't cut it. This will take a dedication and intensity most people don't have. It will also take an ever changing plan of attack and layoffs when it is really needed.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Infidel,

At the least you should put forward a list of demands.

:rose:

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Infidel, you can damage your heart muscle if you starve yourself. That is how many anorexics die..
If you like the fasting approach why not try a fasting program that is more supervised and provides protein so you don't damage your muscles. You could also try rotating a few fast days a week.. You really are playing with fire. Also you are slowing your metabolism down. You should be trying to encourage your body to burn more calories rather then turning your furnace way down by going into protective starvation mode.

Someone also mentioned gall stones. They are very common after fast weight lose. You can protect yourself from them simply by taking one tablespoon of a high quality oil a day with a little lemon.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Be very cautious when you come off the fast.....I would probably start out with 5 or 6 light beer.:D

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Im hungry just reading this. Im going for a pizza later, followed by some ice cream and maybe a few candy bars to finish off the night. Yea Im fat but Im saving up or when there is little food around.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Just got the following in my email today. I really like this guy.

Due to a million years of stark uncertainty regarding our next meal as "Hunter-Gatherers" on the Serengeti, our physiology evolved over the eons to take advantage of the occasional lack of food to do some biological house-cleaning & repairs. Of course, those early Fasts were not voluntary. Presently, ours must be. Why?



Could it mean that we then need these occasional fasts evolved over many millions of years for proper health? It should come as no surprise that Mother-Nature would contrive to make use of this forced culinary down-time and utilize it to positively affect individual physiology. Consequently, this "fast-time" would be used as an opportunity to detoxify the body, something Mother-Nature is already geared to do anyway, right? Consider the little mini-fasts everyone experiences between evening and morning resulting in a corresponding mini-detox as evidenced by the ejected "morning mouth" toxins coating your tongue in the AM. These mini-detox sessions cease upon "breaking the fast" by having "Break-fast"... BUT, if you don't break the fast, and just keep going without food, this detox "effect" will intensify.



This will make you feel bad, of course, initially. Though, given that your circulatory system is flooded with all the toxic, if tiny, dead bodies of bacteria & other microbes killed in a fasting activity, that's understandable, especially the first few times you try it. Over the months as you repeat a fasting detox periodically, the ill effects diminish.



The efficacious effects of this intelligent fasting vary:



If you fast 1 or 2 days you get the detox effect plus you give your digestive organs a needed rest, especially your poor abused liver. This is forgetting that, while resting digestively, you are avoiding one of the greater sources of free-radicals out there! No... not the one trillion (that's trillion, with a "t") free-radicals in one puff of cigarette smoke...



Again, no. I'm referring instead to the gut stress & free-radical damage caused by the necessary act of digesting the garbage most people eat! Though, don't get me wrong; even if you eat the "perfect" diet, digestion still produces free-radicals, abundantly.



Free-radicals, in case you're not clear, are destructively reactive little particles we either consume or make ourselves as a result of natural metabolism. They figuratively "peck away" at every cell in your body throughout your life causing easy disease & needless aging. Free-radicals, consequently, need to be held in check with anti-oxidants in foods like red wine and raw veggies & fruit and "Essential" supplements like Vit.A, Vit.E, Selenium & Zinc found in a good Multi-Vitamin and Mineral supplement.



Also, there is a staggering array of "Non-Essential", yet powerful, anti-oxidant Herbs & Supp's like NAC, Astragula, Resveratrol, Grapeseed Extract, R-Fraction form of Alpha Lipoic Acid... just to name a few I like.



Back to fasting, if you fast for 3 to 5 days your body transitions into "organ repair mode" where accelerated tissue repair is enjoyed. This makes perfect physiological sense, considering your system is always trying to repair tissue anyway but is forever having to "swim against the tide" of incoming toxins & free-radicals; however, both of these are reduced in one fell swoop with..."The Fast." I suspect this evolved "healing" process is why "The Fast" is integral to so many divergent religions, eh?



The aforementioned "tissue repair" phenomenon has just recently been verified by a study observing fasting Mormons. Mormons in general were a good test group because they followed similar rules against smoking, drinking, stimulants & slothfulness. The fasting significantly decreased heart disease! This is as opposed to Mormons who did not fast. See, fasting demonstrably equates to good health.



This repair of tissue has to be weighed, of course, against the loss of muscle as a result of not providing enough of the nutrients to build muscle. To have this muscle-loss effect be small to insignificant, never go on a "Water-Only" fast for more than one day & I wouldn't do a "regular" fast (with a small intake of mostly liquid nutrients) for over 5 days... even though many recommend an occasional 30 day fast... 30 days you will lose muscle.



Also, take your supplements as usual, but, because you are not eating, the ones you would normally take with food should be taken with some weak diluted juice and/or take your supp's at the same time that you pop a few tablets of Spirulina. Spirulina is an easily digestible, blue-green algae super-food that is a concentrated form of highly digestible protein & other nutrients, in particular chlorophyll, which also helps detox the gut, so Spirulina is highly recommended during fasting... especially if it's a 3 to 5 day fast. You see? You are "trickle-charging" a little bit of some easily digestible & concentrated nutrients... like weak, non-sweet lemon or lime juice, your supplements, and the aforementioned Spirulina. Your body thanks you, but seriously, it responds to this new respect paid to it.



#1 warning while fasting � strange as it may seem, it is easy to not drink enough clean water or weak juice & become dehydrated, so sip on liquids all day.



Also, you can drink herbal tea & as previously mentioned... you should drink some very weak diluted juice, not high in sugar or fructose! Lemon, lime, or a very weak mix of highly concentrated, unsweetened cranberry juice like you get online or at a health food store... not the crass and "sugary" abomination called "Ocean Spray" or any other grocery-store Cran-juices. This healthful cranberry concentrate does have a little natural sugar listed on the label but it is very sour, indicating no added sugar, so it can be sweetened with Stevia...but absolutely NO table sugar or chemical artificial sweeteners.



If you get really hungry, eat a small piece of watermelon; however, don't be surprised if you don't get "mad-eatties." It may be a mental "thing" but once you make up your mind and start a fast, you really don't get all that hungry... UNLESS, of course, your too considerate family decides to have a mondo-bionic, BBQ blowout while you're fasting. That might be something less than supportive...



So get the whole family to fast together! Jeez, kids likely need detoxing more than adults considering the garbage they eat when you're not looking, eh? Hey, fasting's better than Ritalin!



MSM (Methylsulfonymethane) � One option available is to do some Pre-Fast-Detoxing to lessen the "Full Tilt Boogie" Detox that comes at the height of the Fast to start later. MSM is a natural form of Sulfur that is a powerful detoxifying agent... this is not the #%*@&* toxic, man-made crap, SULFA (spelled w. an "A") that MD's pass out like candy & is the "stuff" that causes so many allergic reactions (sulfide, sulfite & sulfate). I know, I took that poison for 8 years while a team of military doctors conspired to slowly kill me.



NO, Sulfur (the S in MSM) is one of the most abundant elements in your body & 80% of that Sulfur is in the form of MSM. And if that wasn't good enough, the 1st M stands for Methyl...making MSM a Methyl-Donor, meaning it "donates" a Methyl-group for accelerated cell & tissue-repair.



DO the MSM run-up to your fast as long as you like... maybe a week or two... or just forget the Pre-Fast-Detox & jump right in to the fast. Either way, but if you do the MSM, start with 0.5 grams (500mg) twice daily & then over the next week slowly increase up to about 2grams (2000mg) twice daily for a total of 4 grams. You cannot OD on MSM so if you want to take even more, have at it (it's cheap). Fasting or not, everyone should take 1 or 2 grams of MSM everyday... especially if they have arthritis pain. Before his death, James Coburn swore by it as his only pain reliever that really worked for his deformed "bird-claw" hands!



Do light exercise during your fast, especially stretching, bending & twisting � like the military daily-dozen. This has 2 "Fasting-Synergy" effects! First, drinking & sweating is just that much more detoxifying by flushing-the-system. Secondly, there is as much fluid in your Lymph System as there is blood in your Circulatory System, but the Lymph System does not have a "Pump" (uh...like the heart?), so it gets its pumping action (and cleansing) by judicious stretching & walking... more Detoxing activity.



Consider the "Fast," reader. A little short-term discomfort translates to a win, win... win situation! You provide the entire body with undistracted time to affect quality repairs. You drop a few pounds. You don't consume anything, saving money, fuel, and resources. Too, when fasting you're not contributing to the trash heap, eh? All these definable positives self-actualize to provide an enhanced quality of life! Less, reader, has never been more!



Questions?



Alan Graham

E-mail � alan068@centurytel.net

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I'm reminded of the quote in my signature line.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Nice job. The longest I've gone is 3 days. Fasting is great. It's like a reboot for your body.

I hope you gain what you were looking for out of it.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Ask Karen Carpenter....from what someone who knew her told me, she starved herself for so long that her body had become incapable of handling food and her heart simply broke down......bad mojo.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I gotta tell ya......my girl has been creating these breakfast somoothies that include green vegetable, fruit, brewers yeast and flaxseed oil. When I drink them, I have all the energy that I need until about 7 pm. I have lost several inches around my gut and all the pants/shorts that I couldn't wear before due to being too tight now fall off me. I highly recommend them and are probably close to the juice fasts that you are writing about.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Actually, I'd guess that most wild animal species have at least a once-yearly fasting period, forced by nature. Some animals hibernate through it.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

good luck, Infidel. I'm not too sure about the length of time you're doing this as it sounds a bit on the extreme side, but i think your intentions are fine and I hope you gain more than just detox from it.

on that thought, how about updating this thread as it progresses?

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

The best way to diet is to eat eight meals a day, each exactly 100 calories. Each meal should total to 8 grams of protein and 17 grams of carbohydrates, preferably vegetables. That way you get your needed protein so the body doesn't scavange your muscle tissue and the calorie level is just under the level where the insulin trigger happens (100 calories). The 800 calorie/day is just above the scavanging threshold. In reality it is hard to do this with typically eaten food combos. I did it once years ago and lost heaps of weight. Ate thin turkey breast sandwiches with diet oat bread/lettuce/mustard. And lotsa low-fat cottage cheese. And steamed broccoli. With vitamins of course. And a small apple when it just couldn't stand it. Worked out at the gym twice a day. Treadmill in the morning and weightbench after work. Shed pounds like I couldn't believe it. But I got it all back after resuming my normal routines. Cause thin is a life-style, not just a diet...

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I hope you have already gone through shorter fasts to detox your system because if you didn't it's going to hit you real hard.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Don't look at this picture!!!

http://a725.g.akamai.net/7/725/1095/.../big/rt021.jpg

Looked? Didn't you?

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

hehe

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I couldn't go more than one day without eating...
I get a headache if I miss a meal.
and sometimes I get the shakes and a cold sweat if I go too long in the Morn with out eating (maybe too much coffee on an empty tummy)

I 48 Y.O. am 5'10' 155lbs
when I was 18yo 5'10 150 lb
been this way every since.

Mostly Just lucky I guess
But Working My ass off 5 days a week for 30 years helps too.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I don't think that fasting for more than 3-4 days in beneficial. When you lose weight by starvation around 1/3 of the weight lost is muscle tissue. So while you will get lighter it is not all body fat. Also to make matters worse when you do start eating again your metabolism has slowed down to compensate for less caloric intake so it is very easy to put the lost weight back on.

As for getting rid of heavy metals and pesticide residue. There are also much easier and gentler ways on the body such as chelation supplements or food supplements like spirulina and chlorella. Just general healthy eating will cleanse over time so unless you are suffering a specific ailment there is not much reason to have a long fast. 30-40 days could definitely be dangerous it is not worth the risk.

To get lasting weight loss results you need to make vigorous exercise and proper dietary habits part of your life style. Plus it is just better for your overall health.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Infidel,

If you continue with this stupid ritual for another 2 weeks, there is a good chance that you will end up dead.

You are doing more harm to your body than good.

Go eat something.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

well, every animal will fast immediatly upon illness, this is common knowledge anywhere where animals can b readily observed such as a kennel or a zoo, ect.

secoondly, it is quite difficult to compare humans to wild animals, especailly their dietary habits. no other animal on earth cooks its food either, or eats cooked milk (or any milk) from another mammal. habits like this may necessatate the need for fasting.

additionally, in nature, you will not see obesity. when an animal eats it's designed diet, in it's natural state, there will be no illness or obesity.

i agree that fasting for 40 days is potentially dangerous. so is eating a steak every night for a month..... the body is very capable to go without food, there have been reported fasts as long as 120 days. 40 day fasts were common for many hundreds of years and are mentioned 68 times in the bible.

i personally have done numerous 10 day water fasts, 2-3 day total fasts, and a 30 day fresh orange juice fast. fasting can be a completely safe and healthy addition to any health regimin.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Maybe he's in the hospital supping on spirulina?

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

End of day ten, feeling fine. I am in ketosis because ever so often there is a bit of acetone smell here and there. The throat gets this cold feeling and the mouth feels sweet. So does distilled water I drink.

My family and extended family and their friends from abroad went for sushi. At first I wanted to join them from politeness because these friends from abroad are here for a week and I have not seen them in ten years, but then thought that all these people eating all that sushi will at least give me envy if not stomach churn. One thing I like is good spicy tuna temaki and yellowtail sashimi.

http://www.geocities.com/citynite/temaki.JPG

Another thing is that I need to buy some superpails of grains and beans and I keep thinking that there must be some way where I can buy the grain locally cheaper than the internet distributors.

And I have been trying to translate the recipe to post here for Russian home made spam like canned salted meat. any meat will do. just meat and fat and salt. Called tushenka. Keeps for like 6 years.

One can also buy it on the internet from russian online stores. it is a staple of russian army ration and everyone really likes it.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

When I was in the service, I had a Gunny Sergeant depriving himself of sleep. He was getting to be a real lunatic after a few short days. The sickness feeds on itself. Best for someone to grab infidel and force feed him about 12 big macs.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

An Happy Meal intervention.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

If you are fasting to detox a double portion of miso would've done you a lot of good. :smile:

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I went 19 days without eating last year. I did mix some organic lemon with my water. Don't worry, you won't die, but I would keep it under 30 days since it's your first time. oh, eat some yogurt or take some probiotics when you come off, or you will suffer severe stomach aches.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I've done 15 days with just water and lemons/limes, not through choice. I felt so hungry at times I could take a bite out of a tree - but by the end of it, I felt so "clean", it was worth it. Not worth it enough to do it again, but I felt great.
Then I had a Big Mac, and died shortly afterwards.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Infidel... a status report.... are you still breathing?
in reference to the acetone smell, just you notice, or have family members commented?
how is your vision? any reduction in field of view or visual disturbances/ hallucinations would be a sign that your fast may have reached the point of maximum safe duration.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Thanks for the concern.

Acetone smell is from ketosis. I am in ketosis now. My wife felt it too. Vision is great. It is not really that dangerous. Again this is why this thread is in survival prep. Because when and if any of us might not have any food to show that we can live with clean water only. The physical capacity is diminished, but beyond day 3 you do not feel hunger a whole lot.

There are tons of others that fast safely. Some have symptoms some do not. I ate pretty healthy before this fast. So mine so far has been smooooooth. No loss of productivity. At night I go to bed earlier. Sleep longer. Feel like a freshly minted silver dollar in the morning.

Just because we are all habituated to eat does not mean you can not take a breather once in a while

Here is a water fasting forum

Some people underwent 90 day fasts supervised by medical doctor

I am not aiming for even half that length now. I will go until a genuine feeling of hunger returns. Could be day 30, could be day 40, could be tomorrow. The organism will know. I have not felt toxins exiting my body yet, so I guess it will not be tomorrow.

This lady doctor describes the type of fast I am on

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

For starters, I think you should make Infidel a moderator. Next to G-khan and andy and a few others, there are few here that have made more significant contributions over a longer period of time than Infidel.

That said. I think some on this thread have gotten a little over dramatic about the dangers of fasting.. Like someone on your other forum told you, Infidel, "Real hunger comes only when the body is actually starving."

The longest I ever fasted was 9 days. And that was to keep from having to go to prision in 1998. A long story I doubt I will ever want to share on this forum. (except to say the main and only witness against me got killed in a car accident before I went to court and they dropped the charges to disorderly conduct.)

A few years before that I witnessed my best friend at that time fast for 40 days to kick a twenty year heroin addiction. I lived with him at the time and he was rather nonchalant the whole time, (he did drink veg juice once a day) No drama. Except on the 40th day. He wasn't in this world. He left momentarily and when he rejoined us, his heroin addiction was gone.

The man was still heroin free about five years later, the last time I saw him.

What happened to him on that 40th day? I don't know. He wouldn't tell me and by the expression on his face when I did ask, I knew never to ask that question of him again.

His was a fast for life or death, bro. He had no body weight to loose, except maybe a black vein that ran half the length of his left leg that he blew out from junk.

The only clue I had of what he was going through was about 35 days into the fast he started mumbling crazy crap like, "My God, I see people the way we really are". "I see myself the way I REALLY am.." Strange shit like that... And then he stopped talking to people and went into another 'reality'?

I watched the whole thing daily. His ****ing cold turkey detox before the fast when some asshole stole his methadone. HUGE DOSES.. I watched him overcome 'that beast within', as Johnny Cash would call it.

It was 1989 and he was clean for the first time since 1969 and then and there I realized fasting was no joke.

Not sure what I am getting at here. What does survival of the fittest mean to you?

And I admire the way you restrained your appetite when surrounded by old friends.. My buddy that fasted for 40 days? that focker was a cook! He sometimes had me in the kitchen to taste food that he was preparing for others because he couldn't taste it himself...

The last time I saw him I was passing by chance in the hall of a public building and there he was giving a speech to a local businessmen association entitled, "All My Friends are Dead". and telling the story of his life..

Thanks for bringing back that memory to this old poster. Look forward to seeing what happens to you before your hunger returns..

and wish you the best of health bro, in this life and whatever it is that follows...

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Keef, the withdrawals from any kind of opiate addiction last around 5 -11 days max, regardless of dose or the period of (ab)use.
Been there, done that. Why did he fast for so long?

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

He was already past most of the physical detox when he started the fast, I believe it was the mental obsession of 20 years of daily abuse he was trying to conquer. I think the average life expectancy of a junkie is something like 5-7 years once thier hooked and his tolorance was extremely high. I think he was doing something like 250mg of methadone a day when he had his meds ripped off.

I can't really speak for him, I thought it was really strange myself. But, he was convinced that was what he needed to do to get that monkey off his back FOR GOOD and as far as I know, after that extended fast, he never touched heroin again.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

+1. My "detox" is a nice cup of tea with honey & lemon juice.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Yeah, the "mental" detox is a lot longer than the physical detox - I smoke (cigs only, the green stuff disagrees with me), and quite often when I'm at my mother's and light up she says she'd love a cigarette - she gave up 35 years ago when pregnant with my brother! Some cravings are there pretty much forever...

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Infidel ??

Hows the Fast going?

feeling ok?

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Infidel?

Still not eating?

Feeling OK?

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

We regret to inform you that the member formerly known as Infidel passed away earlier this morning.

Preliminary reports indicated that he died from toxic insulin shock. It seemed that he could not stand the crash diet he was on any longer and had gorged himself full of fast food and candy.

He was found stretched out on his bed with a handful of Pringles Potato Chips
and a Ding Dong by his head with this recording playing on his stereo...

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Yes, still not eating. this is day 14. feeling alright. energy is there. Do not feel hungry, but do think about food often, food dishes that my grandma made when I was a child in Ukraine pop up into my head every so often. More preoccupied with long term food storage than I was before. My wife makes fun of me because the conversation has a 50/50 chance to turn to something related to food within 3 minutes.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Did a total fast [just water] for 5 days when I was young, remember getting dingy and dizzy. No way I could physically earn a living while doing that, you must have a desk job?

I would at least add a source of vitamin C, but admire your determination.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Now it is day 22. I am feeling fine. Do not have a desire to eat. Food sight/smell does not bother me. Shop for food, cook diners, went out to restaurants with my family few times. Great energy in the morning, not so much in the evening. Sleep about 10 hours a night. All vital signs normal.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Just remember Karen Carpenter, don't play it too close to the edge.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

How much weight have you dropped in 3 weeks?

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Well, about 30 pounds. Some of it is from the food/crap that was in my alimentary canal and of course there is a ton of water dehydration of my cells. If I was to stop right now I would gain about a third right back from having cells start intaking nutrition and from filling my alimentary canal. The first week to ten days was about 15 pounds and then I have been losing about a pound a day. My hands, feet and face are skinny now. Wife says that I look like when she met me 5 years ago. I looked at some pics and she is right. I look like a boy.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

How is your situation with bowel movements? I read that many people drink a laxative tea and/or do a "Salt Water Flush" in their first few days of a water fast to really "clean it all out". Have you done anything like that at all? And have you stopped having BM's overall? If so, after how many days of fasting?

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

i'll take a wild guess why you're not as energetic in the evenings. :s9:

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

The first 5 days to a week there has been pretty regular elimination of small amounts of solid with lots and lots of liquid. Then I had one about every 2nd or third day until 3 days ago when some elimination happened every day. I had some gas in these last 3 days and it is gone now. I was told that about the end of week two there should have been some stronger detox going on, but did not happen to me, unless the last 3 days could be that. I expected something stronger. I did not do salt water flush or teas as Dr. Shelton recommends natural detox and advises against all enemas as they leave people enervated after that and that after the cessation of fasting eliminations return to those that did not do any enemas with 30 percent better regularity based on 60 years of his practice.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

You know, when one does these fasts everything loses water and volume and shrinks. :bath:

Kidding aside the desire to procreate, unless seriously provoked, goes the way of desire to eat, once you have no food. I guess it is evolutionary adaptation.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Good to hear you're doing well Infindel.
keep us posted.
Have you given much thought to what you will eat when it is time to break the fast?
On the other extreme - was watching some Olympic swimming for a few minutes last night. The kid Phelps, at 6' 4" and 170 lbs (I'm guessing low single digit body fat too) consumes close to 10,000 calories per day.
Amazing what the human body is capable of in both cases.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

fasting cured a lifelong minor health problem for me (acne). spent a month eating only raw food, gradually less and less, last few days, no food. i'd had acne from being a teen until that point in my early 30s, it's now 98% gone. very good way of cleansing one's self.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Moses, Elijah and Jesus are all reported to have fasted for "40 days and 40 nights". In the first two cases Scripture indicates they were supernaturally sustained. In the last case it would implied that sustenance was supernatural.

There is however a linguistic problem. Because the Bible's original languages are "dead languages" (not currently spoken/written in the same form -- much like true "old English) there is the possibility that the phrase "40 days and 40 nights" is an obsolete idiom. This phrase is also used in reference to the rain during Noah's flood. Many believe that the idiom is only meant to convey a very long time (relative to a normal amount of time based upon the context). Sort of like complaining that your wife parked a "mile" from the front of Wal-Mart.

I've often thought about how fasting in a Christian context has become disconnected in our cultural from the many examples and mandates found in the Christian Scripture and historical literature. I know that there are physical and spiritual benefits, but I have yet to apply it in a meaningful manner in my life. Perhaps I just lack the will.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Obviously he's already delusional.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

When you're starving to death, procreation and sex-drive become a luxury, your body shuts that unnecessary bit down quick-smart.

There is a reason animals migrate to better food sources, stuff themselves full of food, then have lots of sex. They are not in the business of trying to raise young with no food resource available, or the stored fat to hunt for more as the newborn requires.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

He has all this and more to look forward to when coming off the diet. :D


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Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Sorry your getting so much crap Infidel. For people who distrust the government so much they sure buy the health bullshit they are fed hook line and sinker. I do a weekly one day fast (no more because I am nursing my baby) Theres another study that came out saying that MOrmons(my religion) are healthier than most because they fast.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Don't burn all those yankee green backs, bro.

While in america---

---Why not enjoy a nice capitalist weekend? mmmmmmmmmmm....

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I certainly don't mean to give Infidel any crap. I've learned much from this post and look forward to more. With that said, a little ribbing about Russian canned meats is to be expected.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

How about an update, Infidel? How many days to go?

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I think this is day 27. I had a pretty bad day yesterday. I had been busy for the last 3 days and with exertion I got feeling progressively worse in the evening. Then I said: "Basta!" and decided to lay it out for the last half of the day and I am feeling alright. The detoxification is going well. My skin is a little wrinkly here and there because I lost a bit of volume as one can imagine. However I am young and this will improve combined with refeeeding after I am done. I do not know how many more days. First the tongue should clean up. It is white for now because the body is cleaning up the toxins. Usually right then the hunger returns. After that I will begin refeeding. My wife is pushing me to not fast for more than 40 days. I usually say "yeah, yeah, sure thing darling"

I do not know. I t really depends on the individual.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I once tried to fast for as long as I could and could only go for 5 days.

it sucked.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I broke the fast. I went for 31 or 32 days. Started with fresh home squeezed orange/grapefruit/tangerine juice yesterday morning. Started eating pulp today morning and just right now made myself some vegetable soup with flavor. It is nice.

So that adage

3 min without air
3 days without water
3 weeks without food

I think that one is wrong. I spoke to a guy that did a 92 day fast. He was really fat when he started and now he just kinda looks really really husky. He is 6'5" and was 400 plus. Now he is 300 plus. he said that cause he was already in his 40s he did not expect all the skin to deflate so he had skin removal.

I lost about 35 pounds and I am gained about 5 pounds already from my alimentary canal filling up with all the citrus. This soup should help too. It is hearty. I will gain quite a bit back and hopefully with some running, which i can do easier now as my feet do not hurt I should be alright with some lower metabolism.

Strangely I still do not want to eat. No really strong appetite. I thought I would be ravenous.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Congrats on the weight loss. Hell of a way to take off a few lbs but you must feel better with it gone. Also glad to see you didnt overdue it.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

:applause_ keep giveing us updates!

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Sounds like you were pretty dehydrated - white tongue, wrinkles, loss of appetite = signs of longterm dehydration.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Explain please as how is it possible to get dehydrated on a water fast. You know, the one where one drinks about half a gallon of pure water a day.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

LOL, no kidding Infidel. Congrats on a successful fast. I wish I could, but I am nursing a baby right now and can't.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

i am starting a 15 day water fast on september first. I quit smoking for a month recently and gained about 20 pounds. I am smoking again, but the weight is still there. Today I started to prepare myself for the water fast. I will be doing only raw food for the next few days, and then the water fast begins.

I used to be very into healthy eating, and have doen several fasts before, one time a 30 day fresh squeezed orange juice fast. I also have eaten only raw food for extended periods of time. So I am not concerned about "shocking" my body.

I think I will get a scale and start a thread to document my fast on another thread if anyone is interested. it may help me to be more serious about it as well. Today I only ate tomatoes and pepppers from the garden, so i am off to a good start. I will not desire to smoke after a couple days into my fast, so I will be saving lots of moeny not drinking, smoking and eating. I will also not smoke after the fast is over. So I am very excited to get this started.

one thing that always amazes me about fasting is the ridulous amount of energy and the vivid dreams I have while fasting.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Just curious, how were your energy levels? I am thinking about doing a fast but I want to make sure I wont be totally exhausted at work.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I have never fasted for more than a day, due to my concern about losing muscle mass. I have, however, done extended periods of under 1500 calories per day, while attempting to get enough exercise to keep the core muscle mass at the same time.

It's the loss of muscle mass that scares me, particularly in a society where food is abundant and cheap, and all social interaction revolves around food. I see the hard part of the fast as coming off of it: You must keep your caloric consumption lower than normal because your ability to burn energy has been diminished by the fast -- less core muscle tissue. So you have to eat like a bird for a few weeks, else your body will store tons of fat in a hurry, as it has nothing else to do with the food.

Fasting for a couple of weeks: hard. Eating little after you break the fast: harder.

Fat cells hold pesticides and heavy metals, keeping them in suspension away from your bloodstream. When you lose fat, this stuff is released into your bloodstream. Lose fat slowly and your liver will process this crap out of your body without allowing a large increase in the levels of this stuff in your blood. Lose fat quickly and the levels shoot up and stay there while the liver slowly whittles them down. Is it worse to have slightly-elevated levels of poisons for a longer period, or to have highly-elevated levels for a short period? The conventional wisdom used to be that the latter is worse, but I have heard that it's no longer unanimous. This is one of the arguments agaist yo-yo dieting: it repeatedly blasts your organs with high levels of poisons your body would normally never encounter.

The toxic chemicals in our air and food are the main difference between now and hunter-gatherer days. It used to be no problem to flush out fat cells abruptly. It may still not matter much, but I am not sure. In a state of nature, fasts are just fine.

To be safe, I'd aim for lower caloric consumption all the time, with occasional short fasts if they make you feel good. Long fasts may not be a problem, but I'm not sure.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Sodium, potassium - you know, those evil chemicals they put in rehydration drinks, that pure water won't have enough of...

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

those drinks are designed to replace mineral salts lost quickly due to excessive perspiration. kind of a bad example to compare strenuous exercise to abstaining from food and only consuming water.

but, hey, if it makes sense to you, go with it....

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

... achieve maximum profit by marketing them to individuals who kid themselves that they are Olympians of some sort, and then become addicted to the fructose high.

fixed that for ya SA:wink:

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Vitamins? Essential minerals such as calcium, magnesium, etc?

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

It's got, like, electrolytes and stuff in it! Drink it up! It's good for you and the plants!

idiocracy

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Infidel did say earlier about his cells being dehydrated. Normally you sweat about a pint per night, while asleep. There go your salts. Not to mention your calcium leaching out of your bones, your liver killing cells due to lack of vitamin B, do I need to go on?

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Infidel, can you update us on the effects of your fast? Did the weight stay off? Did the body functions resume their normal functioning? What did you learn?

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I didn't miss this thread at all.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I'd also be curious what Mamboni would have to say about this...

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Still not missing it. Is there a greater point here that I'm not getting?

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

If your not interested, then ignore the thread. I, however, would like to know what the long-term effects of his experiment were. I'd also like to know the opinion of an MD on the subject. I find it fascinating in light of the stories of Biblical fasting (40 days), but that's just me. You don't have to care, and I don't have to make you care.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

This is true.

I have fasted for 2 weeks before on several occasions, but it was a juice fast: apple, carrot, wheatgrass, ginger, beet, parsley, melon, aloe, lemon, cabbage, spinach (no citrus, except for a little lemon - too much acid). I have done much, much reading on the subject (I have worked in health food stores for years).

Unless you have done a series of short fasts over a few month period, fasting - especially just a water fast - can lead to what is called a "healing crisis". That is, as your body draws the toxins/heavy metals out of your cells at an expedited rate (without any vitamins from juices to help heal your organs they suffer through the elimination process), your eliminative organs (liver, kidneys, glands, eyes, tongue, skin) cannot excrete toxins/heavy metals as fast as they are taking them in. Working them too hard, as it were. This can result in renal/liver/etc failure and/or semi-permanent damage.

While it is physiologically possible to fast for up to 30-40 days, drinking only water, this is not recommended until after you have done a series of shorter fasts (preferably juice fasts), whereby you have done preliminary detoxing before moving on to deeper cellular detox (heavy metals, etc).

Infidel, at least get some fresh organic fruit/vegetable juice into your body periodically. Chlorophyll (green plant juice) is a great detoxifier, as it literally latches on to toxins and drags them out, but you also have to be sure not to overdo on the chlorophyll, lest you go into a "healing crisis".

Please consider this, as you are taking extreme medical risks in fasting so long.

edit: I just now noticed original post date was from this last summer, still the above advice is good advice. Due your own due diligence/studies, of course

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I lost 35 pounds at the end of the fast (31 days). I gained back 10 pounds within a week or two. Weight stayed at that level. I am 25 pounds lighter now than when I have started. I want to do another one, but my work/study arrangement changed. I do not work from home anymore. I am thinking of going on a ten day water fast now which would still be beneficial, but not as energy sapping as the last 15 days of the last fast.

My skin is better now I think, I am pinker :)

Fastitis went away pretty much.

I eat better now. I cook fresh and eat that, or eat whole milk organic yogurt and almonds, walnuts and peanuts when I can not get to the food that I made. No coffee, not much sweet stuff.

When I wake up in the morning I drink 2 table spoons of extra light olive oil. Then I can eat in an hour and a half. Which is about the time it takes me from waking up to getting to work. I have a breakfast then.
I think this is what keeps the weight off. I am not hungry most of the day.

I just started lifting weights again and now I do get hungry after gym in about an hour.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I would be a bit leary of this total starvation "diet". Especially since
you are only talking about 50 pounds. Since one lb is equal to about
2000 calories...to loose 50 lbs means cutting out about 100,000 calories.
The question is over what period of time. Assuming you burn about
2,000 calories a day in normal activity..that would mean 50 days of
no intake at all...that's a bit nuts!

It would make more sense (for all the reasons stated by various previous posters) to cut 300 calories a day...and lose the 50 lbs in the course
of a year rather than try to do it in a month and a half and possibly
do yourself serious health damage! How about Calcium?
Will your body start to decalcify your bones in order to maintain
nervous system and normal heart rhythm?

Consult a doctor before you continue with this!

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

You appear to be really bulking right up!

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Phaedrus, about the juice periodically that you recommend.

It is a bad advice. The body in fast knows what to get rid of. If juice is introduced then the body comes out of the fast. We are not accidents here, our ancestors survived long periods without food, we are products of billions of years of conditions ranging from bad to worse. All of our ancestors survived without prepackaged dinners and microwaves. Even if we do not know what we can do, our bodies know.

http://curezone.com/forums/f.asp?f=335

The forum I posted up above is a better resource for those that want to investigate this than this forum. Please go there where people have more of this knowledge.

This was my first fast and it went really well.

I wish i detoxed before it better and I wish that i did it for much longer, but i did not detox before as well as i should have and I exited the fast at day 31 not when the hunger returned. Then again, maybe it would take a few of these fasts to exaust my fat reserves. I still have a bit of food on my bones.

The point of this thread on this forum, in the survival prep section was exactly that.

You can survive without food for a long time. Do not panic. Your energy will be just as good as now after sleep in the mornings and you will feel tired in the evenings, but you can live for a long enough time for the cavalry to arrive if you are in a such a situation when you are without food and cavalry is a few weeks away.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

A few months too late, but thanks for the advice.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

By fasting you lose all your muscle.
Muscle is hard to come by but easy to lose.

In times of shtf you want all your muscle, you don't want to be looking like and have the strength of a skinny little girl.

Build up your muscle, don't catabolize it!

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Best of luck to you...can't say I'm jealous.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Very cool Infidel.

I've done some body cleansing in the past (using herbs / pure food / meditation) but haven't done any extended fasting (most has been 1 - 3 days or so).

I'm glad I saw this thread; right now is a great time for me to do some cleansing and I will now begin my research into different types of fasting.

Here is something to think about that I once read:

It's a good idea to perform an enema before you fast to remove residual fecal matter. Apparently the body, while fasting, can potentially absorb toxins from the fecal matter into your blood stream.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Thanks for the update. I'd recommend that you replace the olive oil with 2 tablespoons of coconut oil (I like "Nutiva" brand). There is a lot of evidence that coconut oil helps accelerate fat-weight loss.

I think it is good that you know how long you can go without food -- in case it is ever truly necessary. Kind of like a SHTF practice drill.

I've been thinking about doing a weekly 24 hour fast. Do you think this would be effective based upon your fasting research?

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Actually I think the body will go through all the fat before it starts
using muscle tissue as fuel. Its the last stage of starvation.
I read somewhere that Europeans who suffered long term severe
undernourishment/starvation during WW2 and the years immediately
after (and survived) had very little coronary artery disease incident
during the rest of their lives. That's even if they lived to old age.
Apparantly the body will clean out any fatty deposits built up
in the circulatory system in its search for food...so that's one
positive effect of going through a starvation period.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

No, in times of low peotein such as a fast, your body converts muscle into fat - hence the "skinny fat" people you see around. Built like a stick, but with flab.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

James, you are confusing water fasting and really low calorie diets.
Really.
The body does not go for the muscle when there is fat and no calories incoming. only on those low cal yo yo diets you get skinny fat.

The volume of the muscles might go down, I have not lost an inch of muscle anywhere as measured before and after the fast.

I lost 35 pounds of fat and intercellular liquid reserves. After a little bit I gained 10 pounds back. Which could not come back as fat due to the time period of reflating being really short for me to consume and store that many calories.

that curezone forum I posted the link to deals with many of these misconceptions.

You will lose muscle volume, but not due to muscle cell attrition, only due to each individual cell getting smaller as internal energy/fat reserves and whatnot getting used up and washed out.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

If you lost 35 pounds of fat and didn't have a problem with it, then you were WAY overweight. If I lost 5 pounds of fat I would worry about my health.
And what exactly is the difference between a "low cal yo yo" diet and a "No cal no no" diet? The low calorie diet contains the nutrients your body needs, the no calorie does not.
Believe me, I've been studying this and treating patients with it for ten years or more.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Good stuff, Infidel, thanks for sharing!

What was your weight prior to the fasting and how old are you? I am looking into doing this myself.

And would you not recommend doing this if holding a regular 9-5 job at an office? i.e. would it adversely affect one's job.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Oh one more thing I was hoping to ask:

Do you ease into the fast or do you just suddenly stop eating?

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Infidel,

I'm getting prepared (mentally and physically) to begin a water fast. My wife would like to do it with me, but she is currently nursing our youngest for the next month. Our plan is to change our diet to only raw fruits and vegetables starting next week and to begin the fast February 1.

I have an entire list of questions for you (I have been browsing your curezone link - Thanks!). I know you have taken some flack in this thread, so if you would rather reply by private message I understand.

1. Did you / can you take vitamin and mineral supplements during the fast?
2. Should exercise be avoided entirely while fasting?
3. Besides the weight loss did you see any other instances of healing as a direct result of the fast?
4. When your appetite returned was it "changed"? (as far as your individual tastes / cravings)
5. Was it worth it? Are you happy with the results? Would you do it again?
6. How long after you broke the fast until you felt you were "back to normal"? (elimination, energy, alertness)

Thanks!

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I've done several fasts before. The longest being 40 days. I always do Carrot or beet juice. The last one I did was entirely coconut water and a little Ginger. It was my best fast yet. At any rate everybody is different, and I personally recommend people on Raw fruit juices, not only water to start out. Easier on the body, same cleansing effect, and you can do it longer. I did light exercise on my fast, no problem. just listen to your body. Try doing salt water flushes to get all the yuck out in the mornings. Light exercise, but just listen to your body. my next fast very soon will be 60 days of coconut water only. a 1,000 blessings to you.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Oh a couple of additional things about fasting I was hoping to get info on:

1. One guy I talked to about this seems to be convinced that fasting is dangerous because you are likely to get ulcers, according to his expert medical knowledge (Read as: zero medical knowledge). I am not convinced of this at all but I just thought I'd still throw it out here just to make absolutely sure... I mean, it doesn't make sense to me but I could be wrong and he may be right.

2. Do you find the fat you lost during the fast comes back with a vengeance once you go back to "normal"? I was watching a show I think on Discovery channel and they were talking about restricted calorie diets to lose weight and said they found people who do this throw their body into a survival mode which thinks its a famine and next time they get more food the body wants to store it as fat more than ever... is this true with water fasting?

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Sorry RL has caught up. Has not been here much

This is only about water fasting.

1. No / yes / but there is generally no need as you are not losing nutrients as the fat your body is using has plenty of needed nutrients. you can add some vitamins as long as they are water soluble as your stomach petty much shuts down. Do not add tons of vitamin C. that will irritate your stomach. I would just stick with water.
2. the amount of fat calories your body metabolizes when fasting is much much greater than you can expend through exercise. you will need to preserve the energy to do your daily activities as much as you can. aerobic exercise will diminish your energy reserves and you will get tired quicker in the evening. weight lifting will cause your muscles to go through destruction/creation cycle only there will be no creation cycle as all the destroyed muscle tissue will get eaten up.
3. yes. the skin on my feet became smoother. all the calluses and such dissipated. I have very soft smooth skin now.
4. yes. I am less hungry now and am able to sustain myself on one meal a day if I do not actively take care to eat. which I must do as I am hitting the gym now 2 - 3 tmes a week. I do not get hungry as much as I used to before. It is easier for me to say "no thank you I really think one small piece of candy is enough". yesterday I ate in totality close to 1000 calories because I got really busy and completely forgot to eat anything other than a large jar of yogurt (680 calories) and 4 handfuls of almonds. I do not eat unhealthy stuff at all anymore.
5. yes I would do it again if I had 30 - 40 days of low energy expenditure days. as of now I take a cooking class for 16 hours a week, an acting class for 12 hours a week, work for 24 hours a week, study finance for 6 hours a week, spend time with my son 3 evenings a week and half a saturday and try to go out twice a week. Other than that I woudl totally love to do that. Once I am done with the cooking class i might do a 10 day fast. it is kinda hard to do that when you have to keep tasting the stuff you are making :)

I am not complaining here. I found an excellent powerlifting program to help me move along with my fitness goals and am slowly decreasing my BF% and am getting stronger by leaps and bounds. My posture improved a great deal. I was able to do about 20 - 25 pushups before and now I can do them with weights on top of me.

6. I got back to normalized rythm in about a week.

I do not know your living arrangements, but if it is just your and your wife and you have a child that will be weaned just now off her I think it might be too taxing as you both will be supremely tired in the evening.

If she is doing to lose post pregnancy weight I would let her adjust to not feeding at first for a while. Women lose weight after they stop feeding.

1. I do not know. I heard people healing (not curing) ulcers with water fasting because the stomach tissue has a chance to heal up as no acid being produced that could irritate the ulcers. If anyone has ulcers they MUST investigate heliobacter pilori.

2. There is a responce to James above.
I lost 35 pounds of fat and tissue mass. I gained 10 pounds back as cells restored their glycogen reserves. I kept 25 pounds off and am slowly losing weight and gaining muscle with powerlifitng

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Thanks, Infidel! I have spent a lot of time at CureZone soaking up information on water fasting. I've read some of Dr. Herbert Sheleton's works as well as "Fasting and Eating for Health" by Dr. Joel Fuhrman. Last Sunday I started my pre-fast diet, and my water fast started on Thursday. I'm just now going through the weakness of transitioning to stored energy reserves (Day 3). I'm planning on fasting until hunger returns -- which I expect around day 35-45.

Thanks for opening my eyes to this amazing health treatment!

(P.S. -- I'm already down 9.5 pounds.)

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

SLV, I needed just that push. Thank you. How is your fast going?

I was thinking about fasting every so often over the last month and maybe a bit more, but always giving myself an excuse: I am working now, I will be too tired to go to school, what about the gym? So as I read your post I decided to go on another fast. I do nto think I will go for a really long one. Maybe two weeks. I will go mostly by my job performance and overall energy level.

So as of now I have not had anything to eat for the last seven days. It is going well. My energy is rather high in the morning. I have not had any hunger entering the fast what so ever. Unlike the first time.

The most challenging thing during the next week will be a final exam in a cooking class. after fasting last time I took a cooking class heeding my need to learn to cook great food and after talking to my friend who is a student in Cordon Blue. So I am going to be there cooking all that food. I have to cook a chicken centered dinner for four and may not be able to taste any of it. What a joke.

Feeling great though.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

My only concern would be that,animals tend to push toxins into the fat cells for "safe" storage.Some toxins cant be gotten rid of.One of the reasons you should never eat bologna.But in a natural environment those animal fats would be good for you.

But i'm not 100% so dyodd.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Thanks for the update. I'm on day 16 today. I feel awesome. I've dropped 26.5 pounds (57 pounds from my 12-month high), and for the first time I fit into a shirt I've been saving in my closet for 3 years hoping to wear it.

Fasting has been a breeze for me so far. Mostly because I took 4 days to transition into it:

4 days out - no sugars or glutens, only drinking water
2 days out - only raw fruits and vegetables (no lunch)
1 day out - only 1 cup of raw fruit at breakfast and dinner (no lunch)

Because of this I barely had a stomach grumble the first few days. But let me say, since hitting day 14 I have a new burst of strength, I don't even miss food, and I feel completely normal.

I'm only planning on doing this once in my life, so I am going to fast to completion. Because I started out obese I think I will probably fast for around 50 days, but I at least hope I make it to 40 before my tongue clears or true hunger returns. In the years to come I will do 10-day annual maintenance fasts, but I should never have to fast to true hunger again because I'm planning on having a new relationship with food following this fast. It is like I'm pressing the big reset button and eliminating all of the accumulated toxins

BTW... here is my list of diseases healed so far, and I'm only 16 days in:

1. Severe tonsilitis (with regular tonsiloliths)
2. Psoriasis
3. Shingles

The last two are supposedly "incurrable." Amazing!

I really owe a lot to you for turning me on to this concept. It is truly amazing. I feel like I finally know how to get healthy. I have been studying proper nutrition for a couple years now, but I have not been able to conquer the past damage. Now I can do that through fasting.

For those who want to learn more I recommend reading anything by Dr. Herbert Shelton at: http://www.soilandhealth.org/02/0201...hyglibcat.html. But the most concise and helpful text is by Dr. DeVries, "Therapeutic Fasting". You can get a custom PDF copy here: http://www.soilandhealth.org/copyfor...ookcode=020141.

FYI... I'm "SoulDoc" at curezone.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

BTW... I've been cooking all of the meals for my family since I started the fast. I actually find consolation in smelling the good food and seeing my family enjoy a delicious meal. All the while I'm not even tempted to eat it. Although there have been some things I wish I could taste. But this is a desire of the tongue and not hunger.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I haven't had the time to read much of this thread but I just completed a 6 day fast a couple weeks ago. Hunger went away on day 3 or so. I felt pretty relaxed and noticed by breathing and heart rate were lower. Also had clear thinking. Felt good. I'm on day 2 of a new water fast right now. I plan on going 12 days +

I've been browsing Curezone for a while now.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I just finished reading Dr. Herbert Shelton's "Science and Fine Art of Fasting" (the same content is found in the older V. III of his Hygienic series: "Fasting and Sunbathing"). He almost mentions on every page that ALL fasts should be to completion. It is unnatural to break a fast prior to the return of true hunger. I strongly urge you to ready his books. Another good place to start is Arnold DeVries "Therapeutic Fasting." Both books can be found electronically here: http://www.soilandhealth.org/02/0201...hyglibcat.html.

The only way to fast safely and effectively is to be an educated faster!

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Cool, reading it now. Thanks and good luck. I'll report in with my progress as the fast continues.

Oh and meditation + fasting = awesome! Also it really helps with the food cravings during the first couple days.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

When doing this type of fasting is it safe to be working 5 days a week and on your feet around 7 hours a day always moving?


If there is anyway of doing this I would love to get into it. I could take a week or two off work to get the process starting but I am concerned that once I have to go back to work I won't be able to safely continue/complete the process.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

You need to read the books I linked to above. Arnold DeVries' book can only be downloaded as a PDF. It is only 49 pages long. I read it in an hour. It will answer most of your questions.

After I passed the Day 14 mark I felt normal again. I did pretty well throughout the day even during the first two weeks, but I was wiped out in the evening.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

SLV thank you for the info. I am looking to lose about 50 pounds in a healthy manner. I am going to do this first through exercise and proper dieting. Once I hit my goal I plan to then do the water or juice fasting. Thanks for the link, dled and will be reading that PDF.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I work in an office environment 8 hours a day on mon, wen, fri and go to school for 12 hours a week on tue, thur.

on monday wen friday,nights I have my son over who is about 4, so I entertain him.

I am now on day 10 of my fast and am doing alright

I would start the process while at work and then take time off when you have really low energy later on

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

The healthiest way to lose weight is through fasting. Your fat cells are full of stored toxins. When you fast you free up all of your bodies resources to filter out and discard these toxins. Also your body completely switches over from getting energy from digestion to getting energy from fat.

If you do a complete fast you don't have to worry about "losing weight". A healthy body will always attain an ideal weight.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

By the way, today is day 20 for me! So far I am down from 231.5 (day one of the fast) to 201. One year ago I was at a high of 256. I'm looking and feeling much better.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I used to me energetic with a high metabolism until I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism. I went to the doctors one day because I was puking up food in the middle of the night that I had eaten 12 hours earlier. I was falling asleep at the wheel just driving to work in the morning. I was in the middle of a conversation with my wife one day just sitting there and right in mid sentence I fell asleep. I began to have trouble concentrating on just my speech and choosing words. It became a real hassle to function. During this process I went from a very healthy and athletic looking 165 pounds to 200 pounds in less than 3 months.

According to my doctors I have been regulated for well over 3 years but I am still 200 pounds and would like to be back to 165 ideally.

Two Summers ago I walked an hour every night and sometimes jogged half of it. My caloric intake was reduced substantially to 1200 calories per day. I was able to do this and keep my energy level. My friends told me I was starving myself and I would lose energy but I didn't. I lost maybe 10 pounds at this level for about 3 months. Being an athlete in my younger years, I knew something still wasn't right since I only lost 10 pounds. I should have lost 30+

Today, I have come to realize that being hypothyroid is going to be a constant battle and for someone who loves food and will eat anything will be even that much more difficult.

I have trained myself in a lot of ways to not enjoy food. It is a terrible thing but I try to keep food far from my thoughts. I have detached from it. I keep a 1500 or so daily caloric intake and get out when I can but I hover at 200 pounds. Some days I am 198 and others it's 202.

Would going into a 10 day starvation mode help?

Any ideas on how to get back to 165 pounds? I have found that I need to exercise in order to lose weight and that cutting calories alone doesn't work. Maybe I am not cutting enough. Maybe I can survive with my metabolism off a bowl of Chicken broth a day LOL

I try to drink as much water as I can during the day.

Any ideas under my condition would help. I am definitely more active in summer than winter as I live where it is brutally cold...

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

A water fast must be taken to completion (until the body says the fast is done) if it is to completely restore the body to health. You need to read the works of Drs. Shelton (definitive) and DeVries (shorter). Go to your library and get Shelton's "Science and Fine Art of Fasting." You will probably have to get it through Inter-Library Loan. THIS BOOK WILL CHANGE YOUR LIFE.

I think you can cure yourself through fasting, but uneducated fasting is dangerous. There are too many things for me to spell them out in this post. Get the book.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I am definitely interested. I will see if they have it. Thanks

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I am no expert on this sort of situation as I am mostly knowledgeable on how the body functions when everything is working fairly well still.

I do know that in healthy people chronic calorie restriction signals the body to reduce thyroid output so cutting calories too much for long periods can actually be counter productive. The body tries to adapt to the stimulus it is given and when it feels it is starving it tries to reduce calorie expenditure. Bodybuilders when dieting very hard (usually on low carbs) will often include a high calorie, high carb "re-feed" about once per week which sort of tricks the body into thinking that it is not being deprived and restores normal thyroid hormone levels. In your case though this may not work because your thyroid isn't working properly. Do you or the doctors know why it shut down all of a sudden?

Also how much protein are you consuming on a daily basis? Studies have shown that higher protein consumptions tend to burn more fat and preserve muscle as long as total calories are the same.

Finally are all your nutritional basis covered? Do you eat healthy overall? Could you possibly be depleted of minerals? Have you been tested? I can't remember off the top of my head which ones but I do know certain minerals are necessary for normal thyroid function.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

No the doctors haven't really said why. I have asked but they just say they don't know why in most cases.

I have been tested to see my levels and everything is extremely healthy on that front. I have low cholesterol and eat very well. I make dinner each night for 8 of us and we eat better than most families. I eat healthier now than when I grew up.

I could probably eat more protein.

I think my biggest problem is not enough exercise on a steady schedule. I was just wondering if maybe not necessarily fasting but cutting back to one meal a day would do something.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I have posted before but I want to re-emphasize that I think these extremely long water fasts are generally a bad idea. If the majority of toxins that you are trying to get rid of are located in the fat cells why not eat and exercise in a manner that reduces body fat while maintaining or increasing metabolism and muscle mass?

I don't know about the rest of you but I work hard to gain every ounce of muscle I have and to just throw away a large portion of it when there are other methods of detoxing seems pretty dumb. If and when TSHTF I want to be in the best condition possible and that means starting out with maximum muscle so that even if I lose a fair bit of it I will still be stronger than average.

As mentioned in the post to Skinnymoose. Chronic calorie restriction reduces thyroid hormone. It also reduces testosterone production in men. Both of these things are counterproductive.

For those of you who think you are not losing muscle have you done a body composition testbefore and after? I bet a significant portion of weight lost is muscle. The early quick weight loss over the first week is mostly water due to the elimination of carbohydrate and salt from the body.

Now I am not totally against fasting but I don't think extremely long fasts have much benefit. I encourage those that are interested to look into intermittent fasting. For example every other day (EOD) or something like the Warrior Diet (16-20 hours without, eating every night.)

With this sort of fasting strategy you get the benefits of calorie restriction or fasting such as detoxification and fat loss without the negative effects of hormone disruption and muscle loss. It takes several days or more for the body to reduce its hormone output. By eating more than normal and then going without your body doesn't think it is starving, in fact metabolism might increase and at the same time you are burning mostly fat during the fasting period. You are also increasing insulin sensitivity and training your body to use fat for fuel and conserve glycogen without actually starving yourself.

I can tell you from personal experience that fasting 16-17 hours and eating 7-8 (16/8) has allowed me to drop body fat while preserving muscle and strength. I am about 2 1/2 weeks in and will be doing another 2 1/2 weeks or so. I will post my results here when I am done. It is important to note that when I do eat it is healthy food except once a week I will treat myself. Try this on garbage and you will have less then optimal results.

http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/001201.html

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Check out the Warrior Diet. There is a book it can be found on Amazon.com.

Contrary to the popular wisdom that eating 6 times a day speeds the metabolism, recent studies have shown that meal frequency has no impact on overall caloric expenditure. One meal a day is fine if you are getting enough nutrition and total calories.

For exercise weight training>cardio for long term fat loss. So if you only have time or energy for one thing do weight training.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Also to add to the weight training recommendation. More is not always better. 45min 3-4 times per week is enough if you are concentrating on compound movements. Your routine should be based around squats, deadlifts, bench press, Chin ups, bent rows, overhead presses and other exercises that use multiple muscle groups to move the weight. Isolation exercises are generally a waste of time for novice lifters.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Rubbish. Your fat cells are not full of stored toxins - they are full of fat, with the exception of a very small number of chemicals (many being vitamins).
As for "A healthy body will always attain an ideal weight" - tell that to the starving in Africa.
Water fasts are a stupid, stupid idea. You are depriving your body of essential electrolytes and vits/minerals. You feel tired at nights because your body cannot work any more, not because it is eliminating toxins. Vitamin C, for example - your body cannot store it, it is water soluble. So go 40 days without Vit C, not a great idea. Scurvy, anyone?
Any benefit you feel as a result of a water fast is due to the fact that you are not eating crap during the fasting time, nothing to do with "not eating anything".
Eat healthily, research and balance your diet correctly, and you will not be obese nor undernourished, and will feel even better than if you do a water fast.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

OK, experts. Have you read "The Science and Fine Art of Fasting" by Dr. Herbert Shelton? Dr. Shelton supervised over 60,000 fasts to completion during his career. The book I just mentioned draws upon the knowledge of many previous physicians who practiced therapeutic fasting.

Here are some other reading assignments for you:

"Fasting and Eating for Health" - Dr. Joel Fuhrman
"Therapeutic Fasting" - Arnold DeVries

In the past month I've devoured everything I can read on the subject. Come back and argue when you are more informed. Hopefully you will lose some of your ignorance along the way.

You can start your research here: http://www.soilandhealth.org/02/0201...hyglibcat.html.

:15_1_70v:

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I have book marked the link and will try to read some of books in there pertaining to fasting. Looks like a good link overall. Actually this is the type of stuff I usually read.

The reason why I said "generally" not a good idea was that I am not totally against a long water fast if there is a specific, severe ailment that it may help but it seemed that some people on the thread were looking at it as a way to quickly drop weight and improve energy levels both of which can be accomplished by just cleaning up the diet and adding exercise, without starvation, muscle loss or any risk. If you eat well, long enough you will detox anyway.

I don't know that many people that have done long fasts but the few I do know that have aren't that healthy and while they lose a good deal of weight on the fast it is usually gained back in a few months because they don't follow it up with a healthy lifestyle.

My nutritional strategy is a combination of bodybuilding/performance nutrition and natural health. It is pretty complicated and maybe at some point I will start a thread but basically I don't discount either viewpoint. I don't just want to be healthy, I want to be strong and healthy.

Just so you don't think I an armchair expert that is talking out of his ass. Here is a recent picture of me taken outside of a submission wrestling tournament last summer. I am 5'9 and weighed 160 when that picture was taken.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

You look great! :36_1_32v:

But you might consider getting some more sunlight. :bath:


I see fasting as a way of spending 30 days to unburden my body from 20 years of bad nutritional habits. It is a waste of time to fast if a person has not already changed their relationship with food, and if that person does not intend to emerge from the fast with a new nutritional commitment.

BTW... once my fast is complete I'm going to begin a sprint training regimen incorporating some of Matt Fury's "combat conditioning" exercises:

10 minute "bridge" and stretching before beginning

20 second sprint
10 second breather
20 hindu pushups
10 second breather
20 second sprint
10 second breather
20 hindu squats
10 second breather
20 second sprint
10 second breather
20 pullups / chinups with leg lifts
10 second breather

I'll repeat the above process four times for a 15-20 minute workout 3 times per week.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Good for you! I like some of what Matt Fury does and have picked up a few things I still incorporate. Interval/sprint repeats are really good for anerobic conditioning.

I wasn't trying to be combative so if it came off that way I apologize. I just wanted to caution people that fasting shouldn't be used as some sort of quick fix. I am also open to new ideas and flexible in my thinking and wanted some others on this thread to consider other possibilities. Like I said in an earlier post the long standing advice that you must eat 5-6 times a day to be lean and healthy is not true and I just sort of broke my mental conditioning on that idea a few months ago. I am interested to see what your experiences with the fast are and results, as I can always learn something more.

And yeah I am pretty white I usually burn more than tan. :wink:

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

What do you think is an ideal eating schedule?

You really should get sun -- it is the primary way the body has of converting calcium into Vitamin D. If you don't want to burn, then only lay out at times during the day when your shadow is longer than you are tall.

If you have the resources, I recommend this "tanning" system: http://products.mercola.com/tanning-bed/.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Let me help you with your fast. Feast your eyes on this

Attachment 61847

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I could write a book as well. Show me a peer-reviewed scientific study that says water fasting is a good idea for an average person.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I don't know about this.

I am starting to look into fasting as a solution because for the past 7 years my 'healthy diet' has not helped.

See, back then I used to eat a lot of garbage. My diet was a disaster. I mean, Pizza/Chinese food or McDonalds on a daily basis, extremely high refined sugar intake, high carbohydrates, low protein, I never drank actual water directly, zero excersize, minimal physical activity I mostly sat and played video games all day... yet I was skinny as a frickin bone! And I had so much energy! I remember how much I used to wish to have fat thinking only then can I get some more muscle.

Then about 7 years ago I started getting influenced by the more healthy members of my family and friends and I slowly read and realized just how poor my diet was. I weaned myself off that diet to the point that for the past 6 years I have no had a single fast food meal, not a single soda, and very very minimal refined sugar. This sounds hard to believe because of how prevalent those sodas and fast foods are in our society but trust me, I have completely stopped consuming that shit. Today I spend a ridiculous amount of money buying food, because I exclusively buy fresh organic ingredients and prepare my own healthy meals at home. The only times I even go to fancy restaurants are the rare wedding or formal occasion which I cannot avoid. Other than that, all home prepared organic meals and it's a huge chunk of change out of my paycheck. This includes just about any vegetable you can think of, broccoli, brussel sprouts, beets, kale, chard, asparagus... things I never liked before but I have grown to love them now.

As a result of my great healthy diet? I am about 50 lbs heavier than when I stopped the unhealthy diet. I feel tired and lazy often and I have a very low self image. I have a lot more fat than I'd like to carry around. It's not like I eat much either, I mean, it is difficult to calculate actual calories when you prepare everything yourself. But whatever it is it is definitely not as much calories per day as before.

So the thing that I am thinking is that I am not as healthy as I should be because I still have a large reserve of toxins from my unhealthy years which is not going away. So I'm starting to look into alternatives like water fasting to help me.

I am still on the fence over this as I do have some fears about water fasting, mainly that the metabolism/thyroid function will be permanently slowed down since you stop digesting food for so long. I wish i had more data on this issue..

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

The weight gain is likely due to age - your metabolism generally slows down as you get older, and sometimes dramatically. Feeling tired and lazy is likely to be a result of carrying an extra 50lbs. Try keeping eating healthily, but eat less...

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

The crazy thing is that I've been cooking all of the meals for my family. I realy wish I could taste them, but I'm not really "hungry". I even accidently licked off my finger the other night, and the savory taste didn't make me want to eat.

Here is what I made them last night. It was a HUGE hit:

SALMON FILETS
4 small frozen wild-caught salmon filets (rinsed)
glass pan greased with organic olive oil
sprinkle generously with dill weed
mince one clove of garlic into pan and mix thorougly
place frozen filets into pan and rub down both sides
cover pan with lid or alluminum foil
allow to thaw in pan between lunch and dinner (about 4-5 hours)
cook covered @ 350 for 30-35 minutes (until meat easily flakes apart)

CREAMY SAUCE
2 tbsp softened cream cheese
3 tbsp mayonaise
2 tbsp lemon juice
1 tsp crushed red pepper
2 tbsp dill relish
3 tbsp finely diced onions
warm, stirring constantly, until sauce is completel smooth -- serve warm

On the side we had sweet potato fries (fried in safflower oil), steamed asparagus, and fresh home-made whole wheat dinner rolls with butter and honey (made with home-milled whole wheat).

My daughters (ages 6,5, 2) cleaned their plates and asked for seconds! That ought to tell you how good it was.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

You are right where I was, but I had only been eating completely healthfully for 3 years. It helped for a while, but I hit a plateau where nothing seemed to help me get rid of my psoriasis, shingles, tonsilitus, and excess weight. I think fasting is the miracle doorway back to restored health. Once my organs are unburdened my body will work like a charm with my healthful eating habits.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Fasting may help but it might not. If it is toxic overload then sure, but the toxins could be gone and your hormonal system could still be out of whack.

You and skinnymoose should probably get full blood work done by doctors that specialize in hormone replacement therapy or anti-aging. Regular doctors really have no clue about how the endocrine system regulates itself.

For example normal thyroid hormone levels help to support normal testosterone levels as well as keep you lean. Too much estrogen or xenoestrogens from plastics, pesticides or other chemicals lower testosterone because your body uses estrogen to determine when it has made enough testosterone. Most naturally occurring estrogen in the body is produced by aromatization(chemical reaction) in fat cells. So lower body fat tends to support higher testosterone. Higher testosterone usually means more growth hormone. Testosterone, growth hormone, and thyroid if at normal or above normal levels will help you get lean and build muscle. Estrogen tends to encourage fat storage. so you can see how having even one hormone out of whack can really mess you up.

Being insulin resistant or pre-diabetic would also explain a lot.

Now I'm not advising you to not try fasting but if you get some blood work done before hand you will have much more information. Then if you fast you can get blood work done after you resume normal eating for a month or two to see if there is an improvement in hormone levels. If not then there may be more to the problem then just too many toxins.

The more information you have the better you will be able to deal with the problem and optimize your results.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

what is the point of "and boiled veggies" being part of the exit diet?

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I don't think it would shut you down permanently but it could take awhile to restore normal functions. It is sort of like an atrophied muscle once you start to use it again it will return to normal size but it can take awhile.

Permanent damage could be caused by chemicals, hormone inbalances or overuse. For example I know that some people burn out their adrenal glands from constant stimulant consumption(caffeine) and stress. The cells that produce adrenaline are working constantly and can become so exhausted that they can no longer function properly.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

It sounds to me that your problem is hormonal but if you give me an example of what you eat, how much, and when you are eating for an average day I could give you a few pointers maybe. Sometimes people that think they are eating really well are still making some mistakes. Also eating to get lean, muscular and healthy is different than just eating for general health. Also do you exercise and what do you do?

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I quit this bout of fast on day 14. I could not concentrate at work and it was most likely because I was getting too little sleep. Overall it was a positive experience and I feel good now. I quit on Wednesday midday and that day was no pulp fresh OJ. Then yesterday was at first OJ with Pulp then whole fruits in the afternoon and in the evening I had 2 bowls of chicken stock veggie soup. today I will start with soup and add whole milk yogurt. As this fasting bout was shorter I think this is what my body wants. It is strange how I get a feel for what it craves now much more so than before. One thing that I this I will cook shortly will be many bean chili and broccoli with sesame seeds. I have no idea why I want that particular combo. I like chili, but have not cooked it ever, order it every so often, but not everywhere I go. As for broccoli prepared like this I made once a year or so ago.
I am also going mostly carnivore. I know Dr. Sheldon would frown on that, but I took what I needed froom his teachings and it helped me. I think I will fast again in a few months. good way to jump start changes in one's state.

From here on I am heading into resuming my "stronglifts 5x5" program and then start on the anabolic diet whithin a week.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Oh man, chili is the bees knees, through some lean hamburger in there with some different beans and corn, It'll get ya right back up. But then again I have never fasted and could not imagine how it would feel eating chili after not eating real/ or any food for 14 days.

But I know nothing about food health compared to most so do what you want and gj on the fasting.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

People have died from eating red meat after fasting -- especially when "true hunger" has not returned. Breaking a fast before the return of hunger requires the awakening of the digestive system slowly. One week of fresh fruit (starting with juice and easing into whole fruit) followed by one week of raw fruits and vegetables. I wouldn't touch any animal products for at least two weeks after breaking a fast early.

Today is day 23 for me. I have a feeling that I'm going to 40 (one week from Monday), but I'll stop when starvation begins.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I found a website of a young guy who did a 25 day water fast. Worked pretty good for him. He used to have daily pics up but I think he used up too much bandwidth because a couple days ago his site was down due to bandwidth issues. Now he just has day 1, 20 and day 40 after 2 weeks of weight training.

http://www.starvation-diet.com/

There was a link to his bodyspace page as well. I bit more information.

http://bodyspace.bodybuilding.com/Brucester/

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Thanks for the info, thorgrim!

Well, in a typical day I would have for breakfast at around 7 am with either:

1 cup warm green tea with:
~1 cup raw whole milk @ room temp with ~1 cup organic flax cereal
-or- ~1 cup yogurt @ room temp
-or- 1 slice organic whole wheat bread w/ raw butter spread on top (thin layer)

while at work I'll usually bring a fruit to eat, typically 1 kiwi -or- 1 banana -or- 2 clementines -or- one half of a grapefruit, at around 10am

for lunch it varies greatly. lunch may be a pasta dish with fresh meat sauce, cooked fish of various types, broiled chicken breast, cooked vegetables of various types, brown rice... I usually try to balance between carbs and proteins when I prepare meals. or If I eat something heavier on carbs for lunch I try heavier on proteins for dinner. lunch is usually @ 12am. Whatever I make though I eat 'like a woman' according to my friend. small portion compared to the average guy.

between lunch and dinner I usually have a coffee at around 2pm. nothing else. the coffee itself is mostly black, little milk and a teaspoon of raw unrefined sugar.

dinner varies even more. it is usually around 6pm and it is rare if I have the same meal twice in one month. Broiled fish, lentil soup, chicken soup, meat stews. I will try to have besides the main dish a vegetable dish. So typical dinner maybe 1 bowl of lentil soup + fresh salad (lettuce, sliced onions, olive oil, vinegar, no dressing ever). Another night maybe broiled sea bass + lightly steamed broccoli. Etc. I usually eat a little bit more for dinner than lunch. maybe a plate full of salad and 1 cup lentil soup.

After dinner to time I go sleep I'll have 1 cup warm tea.

And thats a typical day. The only thing I omitted is that sometimes randomly I'll have a glass of water. Maybe 1 or 2 cups per day whenever I feel thirsty.

Besides that I never drink any soft drinks or fruit juices whatsoever, and never any snacks like chips, candy bars or any of that crap. It has no appeal to me.

The thing I criticize myself over though is activity. I dont exercise and my job is an office job. So I dont have a very physical lifestyle. But then again you go to the zoo and you go see the lions and you won't find fat lions laying there but you see strong muscular beasts. And you wont ever catch them pumping iron.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

As I was doing research on water fasting I came across this negative article about it:

http://ezinearticles.com/?Fasting---...lth?&id=340628

now I am scared to do it.

Anyone shed some light on the points made by the article?

How can we know who is right who is wrong? It seems everyone is talking out of their ass and no one *really* understands the human body.

<SLV> how's your fast going? Are you finding it hard to conduct your daily activities? Are you going to work everyday no problem?

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

It is absolutely wrong. True fasting does not permit the intake of ANYTHING other than water. To take in just a little bit of fruit juice WOULD cause severe health complications because the body would not be permitted to enter "fasting mode".

Also, it claims that fasting proponents recommend a couple days here and a couple days there. False again. All of the serious fasting researchers/doctors say that you should not fast unless you plan on fasting "to completion".

Read Dr. Herbert Shelton's "The Science and Fine Art of Fasting." He personally supervise ove 60,000 fasts during his medical career. Nobody has more experience than him. You will find that he DOES understand the human body -- he understands that it is designed to heal itself when properly supported.

You can learn a little bit about his philosophy of medical care here: http://naturalhygienesociety.org/.

BTW... I'm on Day 27 today, and I feel pretty good. I get fatigued in the evening, and I find it is best to lie down for 30 minutes sometime in the middle of the day, but fasting, although it isn't a picnic, isn't nearly as hard as you would suppose it to be. Your body adjusts and uses the energy that it has stored.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Your mentor's Wiki page makes for interesting reading -

In 1927, he was arrested, jailed and fined three times for practicing medicine without a license.

In 1932, Shelton was jailed repeatedly for practicing medicine without a license. Found guilty of violating the Medical Practice Act, he served 30 days in Rikers Island.

In 1942, Shelton was charged with negligent homicide and "treating and offering to treat a human being without a state medical license" for starving a patient to death.

In 1978, another patient died at one of his schools, this time apparently of a heart attack. After a two-year-long court battle, Shelton lost the lawsuit for negligence and was bankrupted by the judgment. The school closed as a result.

Sounds like just the sort of guy's advice I would like to take.

Did he also sell that great stuff they use to lubricate snakes?:biggrin:

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Do not understimate the power of the commercial medical establishment. There is a lot of money to be lost if natural means of health are pursued. I encourage you to research each one of those cases.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Darkside, Seems that your diet is pretty good overall it is healthy. Like most people though your diet seems low in Protein and Omega-3 fatty acids particularly EPA and DHA which are found in fish oils. You could get them by eating more whole foods but it is easier to supplement with whey protein and a fish oil supplement. I could go on a rant about the benefits but I will just give you a couple of links that will start you on your research.

http://www.wheyprotein.com/recentstudies.html

http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/omega-3-000316.htm

I recommend something Like Allmax Iso-Natural it is pure cold processed micro-filtrated whey with nothing added. No artificial colors or sweeteners or sugar. Tastes like weak milk sort of. It is fairly expensive when compared to other whey products but is cheaper then most whole foods on a $/gram protein basis and other then arguably whole raw milk and whole raw eggs is the best protein for supporting muscle tissue.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

As for diet and exercise I like to use an analogy sometimes. Building a strong, healthy body is like building a sturdy, good looking house. You need both quality building materials (food) and experienced tradesman (proper exercise stimulus). If your building materials are cheap and of low quality (crappy food) it doesn't matter how good the tradesman are the house will be of poor quality. On the flip side having quality building material doesn't do your house much good if the tradesman are slacking off (no/poor exercise) If you have both quality material and skilled hard working tradesmen you can build a good house in a short time.

The parallels are endless another example would be supplying the tradesmen with sheet rock and paint when they need 2x4 studs to finish the framing (muscle tissue). Too much of one material especially when it isn't needed is wasteful.

Since you know you need to exercise I recommend to just get started. No excuses. You could start with push-ups, body weight squats, sit-ups and maybe an exercise for your back like chin-ups or deadlifts if you have a barbell. Build from there a bit at a time. As you get more used to exercise as part of your routine and stronger you can add more difficult exercises and routines. The internet is great for finding exercises you can do even with no equipment. I didn't get into great shape all at once and I've had a few injuries that I have had to work through. Sometimes it didn't feel like much but over time I ended up in pretty good shape and still getting better!

Doing some exercise even if it isn't ideal is better then nothing.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

To SLV - Why would I waste my time? This is a "Doctor" of nothing, who managed to kill at least two of his patients, served jail time repeatedly for pretending to be a medical doctor?
You are the one advocating the water fast, why don't YOU research the cases and prove me wrong, in which case I will happily let you preach your regime without interfering. Was the commercial medical establishment really that strong in the 20s, 30s, 40s?
I know my stuff - you, on the other hand, do not.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

That is so juvenile...

By the way, why should I waste my time trying to prove something to someone who won't listen?

Dr. Shelton supervised over 60,000 fasts. Two people died while fasting in his care. That is a death rate of 0.003%. Show me any other doctor with that much success! And by the way... autopsies were done in both cases which showed preexisting diseases that would have eventually caused death -- and probably sooner if the patients had not fasted.

Dr. Shelton is very open about each of these cases in his books.

You obviously know your stuff. So much so that you just made my "honor roll."

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Like most people here on GIM, Dr. Shelton probably thinks outside the box and doesn't care much for .gov trying to tell him how to go about his life. The two patients who died may have been very sick and were looking to fast as a last resort. Too little, too late. I seen a lot of people killed by doctors, it's part of the job. Two dead out of an entire life long career is quite an accomplishment that any doctor would be proud of.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Two patients dying - less than the vast majority of doctors. But 2 patients dying due to a treatment by a man with no medical training, and one STARVED TO DEATH - and the "doctor" imprisoned repeatedly?
Zusn - Dr. Shelton does not think outside the box - because he is buried in it. He's dead.

SLV - you are the one trying to persuade people on here of the wonders of fasting - so as I asked before and you ignored, could we have some peer reviewed papers as to whether it is beneficial or not?
I'd also like to see where you found the autopsies - they are not generlly published.
Fast all you want but don't harm others by depriving them of essential vitamins, minerals, and electrolytes by encouraging a 60 year old regime.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I keep going back n forth on water fasting. I sometimes am so for it then suddenly I come across something that makes me think twice about it.

Currently I'm stuck on whether the body burns muscle first or fat first when it is in starvation mode.

There seems to be a hell of a lot of contradiction here, mostly he said/she said. For example:

But then some water fasting sites I read claim the opposite, that the body burns up the fat while conserving the muscle.

So which is it? How do I know who is telling the truth and who is lying?

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Man, that cure zone site is HIDEOUS!

I am looking for some water fasting photo blogs... successes / failures / whatever.

If you know of any please please link me up.

For example, here is one guy who did a 20-something day fast:

http://www.starvation-diet.com/

Seems pretty popular as I've seen it referenced many places

Any others like this?

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

He lost a load of weight - but think, many vitamins and minerals are not stored in your body. Like vitamin C, for example. You need to consume it regularly, there are no "reserves" of it. 40 days without vitamins which are essential to remain healthy?
40 days while your body leaches calcium from your bones to make up for the lack of consumption?
I would strongly, strongly advise against a water fast.
Eat healthy, eat clean, eat minimal amounts if you want to be slimmer and fitter - don't go running your engine without oil.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

The fact that he is imprisoned repeatedly has no effect on his methods. He practiced treatment without a medical license, so what?

The client and the doctor agreed to it, who the hell is the government to say they can't do that and who the hell are you to support them for doing imprisoning him?

It makes sense to me that these people died of preexisting conditions but I too would like to see this autopsy report.

And SLV what do you have to say about a lack of vitamins damaging your body during waterfasting?

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Dr. Joel Fuhrman's book, "Fasting and Eating for Health," speaks to these deaths and subsequent autopsies. This is a contemporary book, and I suppose you could call it a "peer review."

Your body has stores of vitamins and minerals. The only danger is ingesting too much water and washing the electrolytes out of your body. This is why fasting specialists recommend drinking only according to thirst (generally 1-2 pints per day). In some instances these nutrient reserves are depleted prior to the depletion of fat reserves. In those cases "true hunger" returns before the fat is depleted. The body will know when it needs more nutrition and will signal this with the return of hunger.

Today is Day 29 for me. Honestly, I feel like crap. I'm weak and tired and have a headache. My tongue is only 10% coated, so I know that I'm near the end. 30 days is a typical "complete fast", but it can go up to 7 weeks (50 days) depending on the individual. I have a feeling that I'll be close to 40, but not quite there.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Infidel, I didn't scan back thru the whole thread for the reference to the anabolic diet, but is it the one developed by Dr. Paulo diPasquali (or something like that.)

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

It's not a peer review - who are the peers who reviewed it, as any scientific study is before it becomes legitimate?
Your body has SOME stores of SOME vitamins and minerals. My previous example vitamin C - none. It is ingested, your body absorbs it, then excretes it. Water soluble vitamin. Your stores of calcium - well, they are in your bones and teeth, I don't particularly want my body to use that up.
Electrolytes - your body needs them to function. You sweat on average a pint per night in addition to what you sweat during the day - sweat is water plus electrolytes. No matter how much or little water you drink, you cannot prevent that loss of electrolytes. There is no "washing" out of electrolytes possible, merely diluting them if you drink an absolute load of water - see deaths related to MDMA and idiots drinking gallons of water, then dying.
I know you are not consuming enough water to be in danger of that, of course - but why deplete your system of vitamins, minerals, nutrients, during a fast? What would be the harm in taking some sodium, potassium, a multivitamin, if you insist on fasting?

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I didn't support anyone in imprisoning him - I merely pointed it out.
The man trained as a Chiropractor, for Christ's sake - they are snake oil salesmen enough these days, despite improvements - what were they like in the 30s? I mean, all disease comes from subluxations in your spine? That's nonsense, and anyone with half a brain can recognise it as such.
I'd be very interested to read the autopsy reports, SLV, if you can scan or type them... but I suspect you won't.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Read the book that you ordered. It has charts showing specific studies of the consumption of various body tissues throughout the entire process of fasting/starvation.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Infidel and {SLV} - Your posts in this thread are inspirational.

I have been considering a water fast, but I wanted to ask a couple quick questions.
FYI, my schedule is as follows:
Mon - Thurs, wake up @ 4:45am, work (Office), home about 4:30 pm.
Fri - Sun, Drink beer, some exercise but nothing spectacular.

Now through the work week I tend to drink quite a few coffees, so I imagine I would be best to ween myself off over the period of a week, slowly switching to Decaf, then quitting all together.

Regardless, I don't want to buy and read an entire book on the subject, because my political books are a priority for me.
SO:

If I weened off of coffee, and began a fast, would it be detrimental to drink V8 or something like that?
Should I consider taking a multi-vitamin to suppliment my vitamin intake?
If not, would it be safe to be drinking colloidal silver if I was on a stricty-water-based fast?

Thanks for any information that you are willing to provide.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I can't remember who developed it but I think it is the one where you eat no carbs for 5 days and then eat them on the weekend. Don't know if that helps.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Yep, you stick to proteins and non-carb veggies for 6 days (or 5 if you want to take it slower) then have a carb-up day or two, then back to the protein. I've seen very good results in clients using this, good weight loss etc. - but supplement it with exercise, ideally lifting. Your body wants to put that protein somewhere - so why not make it into muscle? It doesn't take a huge amount, if you are new to lifting you will see "newbie gains" very quickly - and of course once all that fat is gone you will be able to actually SEE your new muscle tissue! :)

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Sources please, again? Don't just spout things without any proof to back them up. People have died from eating red meat directly after fasting? I'd like to see a report on that...

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

It isn't really a matter of if you will burn fat first or muscle first, you will burn both at the same time. Anyone who would tell you that you can fast and burn almost exclusively fat is either an idiot or a liar.

Your body can run mostly off of fat for fuel maybe 90% or more but it will still need some glucose to function. During the first 2-3 days your liver will release stored glycogen to maintain blood sugar levels. After this even though you will be in ketosis and burning mostly fat your body still needs to maintain blood sugar or you will go into a hypoglycemic coma and die. It has to get the glucose from somewhere and it will get it from muscle protein which can be converted to glucose threw the process of gluconeogenesis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluconeogenesis

As you can see in the article your body can recycle things like lactate to make glucose but you will still be burning some proteins no matter what and if you aren't getting them in your diet they will come from skeletal muscle.

Additionally the body requires protein for the growth and maintenance of hair, nails and skin. Plus your body needs to repair and maintain vital organs like the heart and lungs and will do so at the expense of muscle tissue.

Now to go back to the burning 90% fat for fuel thing. It is important to remember that fat has 9 calories per gram and protein has 4 calories per gram. Muscle isn't pure protein though it is 70-80% water. So even if 90% of your energy is coming from fat, on a weight basis much less of the lost weight will be fat tissue. You don't need to burn that much protein for energy or use it for tissue repair to go through a pound of muscle.

I have heard that when fasting about 1/3 of weight lost is muscle. I don't know how accurate this is but it is probably not too far off. I hope I have explained how the body functions well enough to answer your question.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Thorgrim, you are almost entirely correct. Despite my living as a Mechanical design engineer (for my sins), I have a PHD in microbiology. The fat:protein ratio varies, but typically 3-5 days into famine/fasting you will start to lose muscle (and you will smell horrible!).
Then your body breaks down fat AND muscle, leaving you a skinny, weak shadow of a man.
I won't argue any more on this topic unless SLV would like to provide evidence to back up what he is preaching, or simply gives up because his body needs nutrients.
To be honest, I don't believe Infidel did the 40 day fast in the first place.
How about some before and after shots, hmm?

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I've never met a chiropractor who thought that. All my experiences with chiropractors have been great, they seem much more eager to help than any physical therapist(and not just dealing with the back).

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Don't fast. To do so without investing the necessary time to thoroughly research the subject would be dangerous.

If purging your body and achieving healing are important enough to you that you would be willing to fast, then reading up on fasting ought to be a top priority for you. I'm afraid that too many people view fasting as a means to "weight loss". Yes, I've lost weight (40 pounds in 30 days), but it is consequent to the purging that is taking place. Fasting should be a means to renew health, not increase image.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Modern Chiropractic treatment has changed a lot - largely for the better, due to the increasing use of conventional medicine and other treatments.
The original Chiropractic, back when "Dr" Schubert trained, was pure rubbish.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Holy frikken guilt trip!

Did anyone else DL this book? I don't mind contributing $$$ to a worthy cause (Such as donating to GIM), but this guy is laying it on pretty thick!
Gimme a break...

This is the text I recieved when I DL'ed his E-Book:
(My own Bold)

Like I said, I don't mind donating to worthy causes, and after reading this E-book I will donate if I decide I think they guy has more "valuable" information to offer me, but WOW!
Show a little tact....

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I broke my fast after 35 days. I was starting to have stomach cramps, my skin was yellowish, and I was really weak. I still had enough fat reserves to go another week to 10 days, but I think my body used up all of the available mineral/vitamin stores. In either case the body will tell you to break the fast.

I broke the fast with 4 slices of a large naval orange. At first it tasted really weird. About an hour later I noticed an incredible burst of energy. Three hours later I tried a gala apple, but it was way to sweet. It was like someone had sliced it and rolled the slices in sugar. My tongue was very sensitive. I went to the store to get some more fruit variety (to try to find something palatable). I ended up eating half of a "crunchy" peach. In fact, under-ripe fruit was easier for me to eat than fully sweet ripe fruit.

I broke my fast at about 4:00 p.m. on Day 35. I snacked until midnight because my hunger returned with a vengeance. The thing that I did that finally made the difference was 1/2 cup of whole oats boiled with apple. It diluted the sweet taste and put something filling in my stomach. BUT... I am also taking a high quality probiotic that contains 14 different strains of bacteria (a one a day pill, I've been taking two a day).

After 24 hours I started introducing vegetables in the form of salads (substituting organic ACTIVE cottage cheese for dressing), and after about 3 days I felt that normal feeding had returned. However, normal in my family is mostly raw fruits, vegetables, and nuts, with an occasional baked fish or pan-seered venison. We eat very healthfully.

I still don't like sugar. My wife made little mini-muffin brownies. They were repulsively sweet to me.

I have gained back about 15 pounds that I lost. I was down 45 at the end of the fast, so I netted a loss of about 30 pounds. They say to expect on average about 1 pound of maintainable weight loss per day of fasting. But all of this is contingent on wise refeeding.

I have not yet begun to incorporate a workout program to accelerate my metabolism. I need to get off my lazy butt...
:yippee:

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Wow, that is great man, congratulations!

Do you have any regrets? Any ailments you had prior to the fast which are gone now?

What was the brand of probiotics you got?

I am now on day 7 of my fast. I still feel some hunger but it's starting to finally subside. I lost about 25 lbs since starting, though that includes the week or so prior to completely fasting during which I gradually restricted calories and stayed away from grain/sugar/starch

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

No regrets. It was a real time of testing my resolve, and I'm glad I did it. My psoriasis cleared up nicely, but it didn't completely disappear, and now it seems to be coming back a little. I don't think I had enough stored nutrients to fast until complete healing. For this reason I am going to renourish my body until 4/1, then try again for 40 days (until complete... however long that takes).

It is a Nature's Way product. I can't remember the specific name, but there are 30 in a package, they are one/day capsules, and there are 14 strains of bacteria.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I don't understand why some of you guys really want to put yourselves through this, some are considering more then once?. My body fat is currently 7.1% brought it down from 9.6% about 6 weeks ago using intermittent fasting and actually added 1 pound of muscle during that period.

I thought it might also be interesting to note that I had a few spots of psoriasis when I started that cleared up during the IM fasting (although I also ate healthier overall). I do get them occasionally in winter and they usually go away in the summer. I have never had them real bad and have never done much research on it but I suspect it is more due to nutritional deficiency then toxins. It does run in my family though, both my brother and father have had very severe outbreaks of psoriasis. My diet has been much better then theirs though and I think that is why the worst I have had it is a few spots.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

It's a last resort for me. I have tried many things over the years but nothing was showing results. So now I am trying this and so far I am amazed with the results. For example, every day so far on my fast I have been waking up feeling so refreshed and ready to tackle the day! I have not felt like this in God knows how long... I'd always wake up groggy and lazy and just hit the snooze button to go back to sleep. Now I am waking up before the alarm clock rings and I just want to get out of bed and do something. I absolutely love it!

I am not sure what is the great concern over muscle mass. I have enough muscle to do whatever I need to do on a daily basis and this fast will not atrophy muscle. It is a fact that when fasting your body will raid the energy reserves stored in your muscles and their cells but the muscle fibers are protected. So while your muscles may seem to look smaller during a fast it's only the reserves which are depleted, and this actually gives the person a more 'cut' appearance than a 'flabby' appearance since more actual muscle is exposed. Your body WILL NOT sacrifice your actual muscle fiber tissue until you have prolonged your fast for such a duration that true hunger returns AND you ignore it and continue fasting, which basically switches the stage from fasting to starvation. This may take a long time though, most people 40 days or more.

But anyway, I find the obsession with muscle mass a bit unnecessary. I mean in order to build more muscle than your body actually needs you need to work hard putting your body through unnatural weight lifting regimes. Then in order to maintain this muscle mass you need to keep on this regime. It's like getting a loan for a second car you never use, like a Ferrari, just to show off. You then have to keep paying for this thing you basically do not need to keep up the image. Not worth it in my opinion but to each his own I always say. I do admire your determination in it.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I thought I explained in an earlier post that you are in fact losing muscle. If these "experts" are saying otherwise then they are wrong. Your body does not store amino acids the way it does fat and carbohydrate. This is one reason why adding significant muscle can be difficult. The total number of fibers may not decrease during the fast but they generally don't increase in number from weight training either. Although years of hard training can increase your number of muscle fibers to a small degree, the main increase is from larger stronger fibers.

The initial loss of size of the muscle is the muscle glycogen and the 3 grams of water each gram of glycogen brings with it. After that further loss of muscle size is actual tissue. The re-flating of the muscles once eating is resumed is the restoring of the carbohydrate (glycogen) in the muscle. After a long period without carbohydrates the muscles become very sensitive to carbohydrate and absorb more then they normally would temporarily. This will give the muscles a pumped tight feeling and the sensation of the muscle tissue being restored but it is not muscle.

The increased definition you are seeing is mostly the result of decreased water retention under the skin. Excess carbs over what your muscles can store tend to cause water retention under the skin. Sodium also does this. Most people consume far too many carbs and sodium and it is not a surprise that a great deal of the water under the skin is lost during the fast. The same results can be achieved without fasting though and one of the benefits of keeping a low body fat % is that you can actually see the direct affects of excess carbohydrate or sodium consumption in the mirror and adjust your consumption to optimal levels to support the muscle tissue without overdoing it and contributing to fat gain.

The concern with muscle mass for myself is multifaceted. For one I participate in MMA and everything else being equal the stronger fighter has a major advantage. This is also one reason why I like to stay lean. I am often much stronger then opponents of similar weight and even some that out weigh me by 30-40 pounds.

Also people do not realize the overall health benefits of increased muscle mass. Most think that there is no relation between muscle mass and health and that is not true. Muscle (and strength) prevents injury from every day tasks because the stress of them are relatively less. It protects and supports the skeleton and joints against injury from slips and falls and impact or jarring from a car accident for example.

Muscle also indirectly supports the immune system. In times of illness your body will draw glutimine from muscle tissue (yes causing loss of muscle) to bolster the immune system and help fight damage from free radicals. The greater your supply of muscle the greater your reserves of glutimine as well as other amino acids that can be used to repair and maintain vital organs. There is one study out there that followed a large group of elderly people for years and they found that those with the greatest muscle mass were 50% less likely to die from any cause.

And since we are in survival prep I might add that greater strength and a greater resistance to disease would really come in handy should TSHTF? Especially if food is scarce I would like to have as much muscle as possible to start since muscle loss is inevitable at that point.

One more thing about muscle is that it is very difficult to build initially but your body "remembers" and after a layoff for whatever reason strength and size return very quickly. I am not sure exactly the mechanism by which this works but from personal experience I can tell you that strength gains after a 6 month or longer layoff are very rapid until you approach the level you were at before.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

thorgrim, as a MMA fighter then I concede you definitely need the muscle. It's required for your lifestyle and career. But me as an average Joe I have no need to spend the extra time and energy to build excess muscle which are unnecessary to perform my daily routine regardless of a SHTF scenario or not. When I exercise I concentrate on aerobics to promote good circulation and less on strength training.

But here is an excerpt on how the body preserves the muscle during a fast, only resorting to it under the extreme situation of starvation if you take it too far:

And this I strongly believe as I've collaborated this by other sources in books with cited references to physiologist.. As you may recall earlier in this thread I was worried about if fasting would atrophy muscles but now I am 100% convinced it does not. The contradictions I can find about it are from "bodybuilding experts" not physiologists. It is amazing how when I wander into those bodybuilding sites the members seem to think they know exactly how the body works yet they all contradict science as well as each other. Not saying you are anything like that though.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

For me it wasn't about weight loss. I had some physical goals, and some spiritual goals. Spiritually, I primarily wanted to be victorious over hunger. It was a matter of testing my will to deny my senses satisfaction. If a man can deny himself food in the face of hunger, then that same man can be victorious over any other sensual temptation. I think this is why most great spiritual leaders have accomplished a long fast. It really is a spiritual experience that is hard to explain. But it is satisfying to conquer the lusts through the power of the will and the confidence of faith. It brings a certain peace.

Besides... it is nice to know what starvation feels like. Both to empathize with the hungry in the world, and to be prepared for an uncertain future. It is good to know that I can go more than a month without food. It gives me that option if I need to make a choice under duress.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

First of all I just want to make clear I am not a professional MMA fighter, I do it mostly for fun and may in the future if I feel I am good enough, do a few fights for money but I am not really looking at is as a career.

I agree with everything in that quote except that during ketosis, even though it is muscle sparing, you still burn some amino acids for fuel and during a fast there is only one place that they can come from. I don't know where that guy is getting that ketosis is 100% muscle sparing.

On a lot of the body building forums you get a lot of "bro science" so they are not always the best place to get info if you are not already fairly knowledgeable.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

From this perspective it makes more sense to me then from a weight loss one. Even without total abstinence from food it takes a great deal of will power to eat in a manner that gives you everything your body needs but is unsatisfying to the mind. Obviously a fast would do this to a much greater degree and testing yourself and succeeding makes you a stronger person.

This is one of the reasons why I am passionate about weight training. There is something about getting under a weight that you shouldn't be able to lift and doing it. I am in battle not with an adversary but with myself. For me working out isn't a chore, it is a challenge that I look forward to meeting each time I step foot in the gym.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Found this article on water fasting. It is actually pretty good.

http://www.gaianstudies.org/articles4.htm

Now here the author is admitting that protein is burned but his math is still off. 18-24 grams of protein is about 72-96g muscle. If you look up the nutritional information on read meat you will see it is about 1/4 protein. The rest is mostly water and fat. Only 1/4 to 1/3 pound of pure protein but 4x that of actual tissue. So according to my math that is about 1.1-1.5 pounds of muscle per week.

That said, it is not permanent and within a couple of months with proper diet and some exercise there is no reason why it couldn't be gained back easily.

I am almost tempted as an experiment to once a month do an ever longer fast. Starting at one day and then progressing to 2 then so on and see how many days you can go without losing more muscle then you can gain back in a week of normal, high protein eating. I know that one day wouldn't do anything. Only problem is I wouldn't be able to do my normal exercise routine during this time. Hmmm...

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

A few more positive physical benefits I forgot to mention:

1. I have had chronic tonsilitis on the left side accompanied with regular (weekly) tonsiloliths ("tonsil stones"). In the first week my tonsil swelled up horribly, then healed. It feels normal now.

2. I have always had a "geographic tongue" (my dentist's verbage). My tongue is clear and pink for the first time I can remember (2 decades?).

3. There was something else, but I've forgotten... I'll get back with you when it comes to me.

BTW... my digestive system is now much more sensitive to junk/fried foods. I have to be real careful or it really rips me up.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I don't doubt that fasting can have positive effects on the body in some people and I am open to any personal insights you have made SLV.

I haven't had any major problems digesting most things but I have noticed that since I started the intermittent fasting that the odd time (once a week) I eat unhealthy food that it gives me gas the next day. I eat tons of protein and raw vegetables and no problems but the junk does it.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

thor -

have you checked out the Carnivore thread in the alternative medicine forum? I think it would be very interesting to get a MMA fighters results on that diet after a few weeks, especially since you already seem to be dedicated to your diet.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Two weeks ago I finished another fast. This time it was 17 days. My weight went from 210 to 190 and now am stable at 202. Just a short status report as everything else I already wrote here.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Thanks for the update. I finished a follow-up fast yesterday. Just 9 days. My wife was doing it with me and she is still going. I had to break my fast because I did not have the energy or focus to accomplish several huge tasks in front of me (we are moving out of state in a month). With the follow-up my weight went from 202.5 to 182.5. Just last year I was 256.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

If I went more than two-three days without food I'd snap and someone or their pet would come up missing....

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Everything is still going good 4 weeks after my 20 day fast.

Prior to my fast I weighed 209, now I have been stable at ~190.

I am much more active now, have more energy and I have great sleep now. I used to always wake up sluggish and lazy but now I wake up fresh and well rested like I did when I was a kid. I don't plan on doing any follow up fast any time soon, maybe in several months or so.

I am extremely pleased with the results of my fast.

Thanks to it I now exercise much more than I used to because I have the energy and actually enjoy doing so now.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I am doing my final fast hopefully

18 days ago I started @ 189
Now I am 158

Will until I am hungry. or 140, whichever is first

The funny thing is I am cooking breakfast 3 days a week for a group of private clients.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

yeah
I get light headed if i go more than a few hours without eating.
I weigh 150, have for 29 years

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Congrats and good luck! You've made it through the hard part. I found that I felt pretty good about 15 days in. Then it got hard again at about 30 days.

I am planning for another fast to completion this fall. I will still do shorter fasts periodically for spiritual reasons, but I hope my next long fast is my last. I also hope to make it at least 40 days.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I just had a huge bowl of ice cream. And it was good.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I had a friend who fasted for 40 days and as he catered luncheons for a living, he had to cook. Quite often he would have me come by just to taste the food he was preparing.. (everything he made was quite tastey/great cook) He said he experienced no hunger after the first week and preparing meals was just a job.. He also was a heroin addict of 20 years and kicked that habit through prayer and fasting..

Last time I saw him he was giving a speech for a local businessmen group, his lecture was entitled, "All my Friends are Dead". Always remember that guy.. He had an interesting life. I guess I am one of his few friends who isn't dead, yet, came close a few times...

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Congratulations on letting your big brain get in the way of what your natural body needs.

Just like going without oxygen for six minutes you've destroyed the vital cells in your body that will never recover. Your kidneys, liver, intestines, central nervous system, and circulatory system will all slow to unnatural levels and never completely recover.

Your lymphatic system has sent out hormones to your organs alerting them to the death of your body and signifying them to break down their essential tissues because they are no longer needed.

The mitochondria responsible for the protein formation of your inner cells have been deactivated and the sodium/potassium membrane crucial for the functioning of all healthy cells is so out of wack your heart has started skipping beats or will soon.

Does the wolf fast? Does the lion? No, their brain never gets in the way of their body. Their body's systems work in natural harmony with the earth.

Continue these unnatural fasts and you will grow exponentially older or die within a few years.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

"Does the wolf fast? Does the lion? No, their brain never gets in the way of their body. Their body's systems work in natural harmony with the earth."

Of course animals fast. Perhaps they don't fast willingly, but they fast when prey is scarce, or when the berries or fungi or tubers don't receive enough rainfall, or when lightning burns the forest. There are too many examples to list.

It is exactly natures harmony to experience fasting. What's not particularly natural is for us to hop in the suv and go buy a gallon of ice cream any time we get the urge.

However, I think you offer a valid point. Too much fasting probably does stress the system and cause premature aging and a shortened life.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

You're right. I should have said "voluntarily" to keep in line with the thread.

I think if the wolf could, it would eat every day.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Ice cream IS good

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I actually just tried the first serious fast in my life. It was a water based detox fast. Honestly, after three days, while my body was feeling decent, my mind was beginning to get sluggish. On day four I found myself a bit slower in concentration and communication than I normally am. I didn't expect this drop in my performance, so I took it as a sign to end my fast early because I didn't want my boss to have a conversation with me with me not being able to follow. As far as the detox went, even after four days I was amazed at the nasties my body was getting rid of.

I may or may not try a fast again - I'm tempted to follow SLV's lead for the spiritual factor (maybe not as long as he did though :ok:), but I don't want this mental sluggishness to come back.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I recently did a 6-day medically-supervised water-only fast at True North Health in Santa Rosa, CA. They've had thousands of people fast there since the 1980s. Some fast as long as 45 days. It's not as unhealthy as you might think. There's plenty of research to support it. Check out some of the articles at their website. I was there for detox from steroids and allergy/asthma medications. It worked for me! Although I did have one really bad day. It's VERY important to eat the right diet a few weeks before and after the fast.

The hunger pains do go away after a couple days, but I had a mild fever and lower back pain. I've been vegan for 20+ years, but since the fast, I no longer eat anything with salt or wheat - no gluten. I'll be 50 this year and I FEEL GREAT!

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I could not imagine going to work during a fast. I was really weak and dazed most of the time. It was hard to sleep as well.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Sounds like your body has problems keeping your blood sugar steady.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Follow the 15/500 rule: Only reduce calories by 15 percent or 500. Anything more than that triggers your body's metabolism to slow down.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I've been interestd in fasting for some time and recently become more interested and have been inspired by Infidel and SLV.

As the grandson of one of those early Chiropractors who were jailed because of the lobbying of the world's richest and most powerful labor union (the AMA), it's easy for me to recognize the objections of those who have taken the AMA Blue pill. Demanding "peer review" is like calling someone a "conspiracy theorist" - it's like the crane maneuver: "No can defense." (The logical fallacy of "Appeal to authority").

The "peers" won't review work that doesn't offer greater income for their union brothers or at least supports current practice. So Chiropractic is ridiculed, Hulda Clark is ridiculed (and jailed), colloidal silver is ridiculed, and we continue back into the dark ages of medicine.

Anyway, I was inspired by Infidel and SLV and have researched the subject, maybe not as thoroughly as some would suggest, but thoroughly enough to satisfy myself that it's safe and a good idea for me.

I'm currently on day two and am keeping a journal at http://www.dailydiatribe.net.

Thanks Infidel and SLV!

:36_1_32v:

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Melbo just informed me he did close to a 30 day fast. I am not positive where he is on right now. He was going on day 22 about a week ago.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Cool! I'll have to send him a note, if he ever gets unbanned from survivalmonkey.com....

i downloaded and devoured the DeVries book. Excellent reading. Anyone interested in copious scientific studies and their results will find a lifetime worth of sources in that document.

Day two. No serious hunger or any other effects yet.

I don't know why I'm not having more trouble.

Thanks again for all the info....

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Skyvike,

If you ever get the chance hunt down this book by Eustace Mullins, Murder By Injection: The Story of the Medical Conspiracy Against America,.

I think you might appreciate it.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

RRR,

Thanks. The Eustace Mullins books are becoming more and more rare but I will look for it.

:emotions16:

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Best of luck skyvike

I've been doing the master cleanse (lemonade) for the past 5 years, before it was popular. Since the very first time, I've found it to be a life changing experience.

Year 1: 12 days
Year 2: 10 days
Year 3: 14 days
Year 4 : 8 days
Year 5: 16 days

It is that time of the year again, this time, as always, my goal is 21 days, I'll keep an eye on the thread for inspiration, I feel much more weaker this time...... I also consider myself damn near an expert on the subject, at least nuts-and-bolts wise, so if anybody has any ?'s feel free to ask

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Thanks Wilhelm,

I'll remember that.

As I mentioned, I'm keeping a journal at http://www.dailydiatribe.net if you'd like to see specifically how I'm doing. I'm just hitting 48 hours now and I don't feel quite over the "hunger hump" yet but feel like I'm close.

;-)

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

You guys seem to be dropping tremendous amounts of weight, almost at an
unhealthy/alarming rate.
I doubt I dropped more than 5-6 pounds during my last 14 day fast,
but I didn't hop on a scale beforehand so hard to say for sure.

If you guys want a GREAT time-- after you fast for say 2 weeks,
try eating VEGAN for 2+ weeks. Then wait until you're very hungry,
order a large pizza with extra cheese and see how much of it you can eat.
On the day you eat the pizza, do not eat anything else besides the pizza
if you can, so you can understand that the pizza is making you very very ill
and it's nothing else you're doing, it's just the pizza. It's very easy to
SEE and FEEL and UNDERSTAND how certain foods affect your body when you
isolate them from other food.
. Also, try replacing the pizza in above example with meat or a 100% animal
product diet for a couple days. All of the people advocating these animal heavy or 100% animal diets fit into at least one of the following categories:
1. shilling for the NWO
2. not really eating the diet they claim to be
3. some of the most ignorant people I've seen in my life

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

keep leaching that calcium directly out of your bones my friend, and enjoy it while you still can. Would you like some fluoridated chlorine "water" to wash that down?

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

BEST FATS FOR RAISING TESTOSTERONE PRODUCTION

http://www.musculardevelopment.com/c.../view/1361/54/

Quote:

First little problem - dietary intake of cholesterol has no impact on the level of cholesterol in your blood. Two major long-term studies, Framingham and Tecumseh, reported that that those who ate the most cholesterol had exactly the same level of cholesterol in their blood as those who ate the least cholesterol.

Quote:

A 2007 reported that a dose-response relationship between dietary cholesterol (from food logs) and gains in lean mass that was not affected by variability in protein intake. This means that higher dietary cholesterol is associated with greater gains in lean body mass!

Quote:

An abstract presented at Experimental Biology reported that the conversion of cholesterol to testosterone may be important for muscle hypertrophy. Adults were placed on a 12-week weight-training program and tested them before and after for changes in muscle mass and strength. While all subjects ate a diet that was moderate in protein, about half consumed a low-cholesterol diet (1.6 mg per pound of bodyweight or about 150-250 mg per day) while the other half consumed a high-cholesterol diet (2.6 mg per pound of bodyweight or about 250-450 mg per day). After 12 weeks of weight training, the lower-cholesterol group did not increase muscle mass but strength increased by 35%. The higher-cholesterol group, on the other hand, saw an increase in muscle mass of about 5 pounds and increased strength by about 90%.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I don't really understand what point you're trying to make Thorgrim...

Any site advertising huge containers of whey protein automatically loses all credibility imho. They might as well be advertising toothpaste with extra fluoride.

There are a few items in the article that I agree with, but there is also a fair share of completely untrue disinfo. You act as though there are only two diets.

Either you eat your diet,
OR
you eat lots and lots of sugary garbage, trash carbs with no nutrients in them, and hydrogenated oil / french fries.

I don't even know why I bother trying to have a discussion with you when you clearly have no interest in doing so... if you ever are interested in taking me up on the bet I proposed to you, please let me know ASAP. Oh yeah, I forgot, your foot muscles are special and don't work for long distance running...:cry1: ... at least you're really strong though maybe, that's good for something I suppose

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

So I guessed you missed the 25 referenced studies listed at the end of article? It's not like this is purely an opinion piece.

I think the article proves that eating large quantities of animal fats don't automatically equate to increased cholesterol and chance of heart disease and also that meat eaters have higher testosterone and ability to build muscle.

Let's just agree to disagree I guess. I have never recommended an all meat diet although I do recommended a diet high in animal protein and fat. It would be more along the lines of the Paleolithic diet. I still eat plenty of veggies.

As for the challenge the body adapts to the type of training you do. Me trying to run a marathon would be like you trying to do well in a power lifting contest. It doesn't really prove anything.

I used to be a pretty good runner actually. I ran track and cross country in high school. Unfortunately I tore some muscles in my left foot about a year ago wrestling and although I have rehabbed the area quite well the muscles fatigue fairly quickly when running and after about 5 minutes my stride starts to deteriorate. So even if I wanted to do the challenge I couldn't. I can still kill it on a bike or rowing machine though.

As for strength being useful, I use it all the time. Yesterday, I helped my dad move a pellet stove into his basement and it weighed about 300 lbs. It was easy and I never had to risk hurting my back or any other part of my body. I'm an ectomorph too that is why I was so good at running. I look pretty muscular but am only 5'9 165 lbs.

Funniest time was when I helped deliver a 26 ft electronic roll down movie screen to a church. In the crate it weighed about 600 lbs and was 30 feet long. We had 5 guys and we were finally able to lift it and move it around with me only on one end and the 4 other guys on the other. If I hadn't been there they would have had to get more help.

So maybe I'm bragging a little here but point is I do use it. When do you use the ability to run for 26 miles non stop?

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I had to end the fast.

http://www.dailydiatribe.net/index.p...6&start=12#241

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Have read your blog...

Don,t kill yourself man...

Just saying......

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

That is weird. I never heard of that happening from not eating.

Have you thought about adding leafy greens and other low carbohydrate vegetables to your diet? I have done a bit of research on PH balance and fruits tend to be slightly acid producing while most vegetables are alkaline. That is one of the reasons I eat lots of veggies, to help buffer the acid produced from a high protein diet.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I completely agree with you about eating as many leafy green vegetables as you possibly can.

However, I would love to see as many reputable sources as possible that show that fruit is acid forming, I have never heard that before.

here are some HIGHLY ALKALINE FORMING FOODS:
asparagus, beets, bell peppers, broccoli, carrots, cauliflower, celery, chicory, cucumbers, dill, dulse, green beans, leeks, mixed greens (all leafy greens), onion , parsley, parsnips, peas, sea vegetables, sprouts(all), zucchini, grapefruit, lemon, lime, mangos, melons(most), papayas, STEVIA, ginger root, rooibos.

Other alkaline forming foods include
amaranth/buckwheat/mnillet/quinoa/wild rice, sesame seeds, apples, avocado, banana, most berries, cantaloupe, cherries, dates, figs, grapes, nectarines, oranges, peaches , pears, persimmons, pineapple, pomegranates, flaxseed oil, , hempoil, pumpkinseed oil, almonds, coconuts, apple cider vinegar, garlic, balsamic vinegar

These lists are taken out of The Thrive Diet by Brendan Brazier

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Here are some HIGHLY ACID FORMING FOODS : Commercial breakfast cereals, pasta, refined wheat flour, white rice, BEEF, PORK, POULTRY, SHELLFISH, butter, cheese (ALL TYPES) CREAM, Milk(pasteurized), artificial sweeteners, white sugar, candy, coffee.
Other acid forming foods include cold water fish, venison, wild game, raw milk, and SYNTHETIC VITAMINS


In my opinion I would rather read 4 or 5 very well written books than read through 30,000 government funded studies that have already made their own conclusions before the results come in. If you don't come up with the results we want in your study, we're cutting off your funding...

I am grateful that I can express the reasoning and logic behind my opinion, and easy explain it in layman's terms to an 8 year old. Whereas all these 100% meat eaters ( and I realize you're not one of them thor, your diet is infinitely better than 100% animal product diet ) just post some drive by links but they can never really flesh out their point of view very well.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I have the thrive diet at home and it looks like you are right about the fruits tending to be alkaline producing. I might have seen some other sources that led me to think fruits were mildly acidic forming. I am sure I read it somewhere. Maybe it is just the fruit juices that are?

I do know that there isn't consensus on all of the different foods. Some people say that raw milk and yogurt are alkaline while others disagree. I think a lot of it might have to do with the diet of the animals producing the milk or meat. Venison is only slightly acid forming, while beef is highly acid forming. Could it be that beef is much more acid forming because they are fed grain and bypass protein these days? I found a chart that shows breast milk as alkaline. How come it is alkaline but cows milk is supposedly acid forming?

<TABLE width=600 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%"><TABLE width="100%" border=1><TBODY><TR><TH align=middle bgColor=#ffff00>Most Acid</TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#ffff66>Acid</TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#ccff66>Lowest Acid</TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#ffcccc>FOOD CATEGORY</TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#00cc00>Lowest Alkaline</TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#009933>Alkaline</TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#006633>Most Alkaline</TH></TR><TR><TH align=middle bgColor=#ffff00><SMALL><SMALL>NutraSweet, Equal, Aspartame, Sweet 'N Low</SMALL></SMALL></TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#ffff66><SMALL><SMALL>White Sugar, Brown Sugar</SMALL></SMALL></TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#ccff66><SMALL><SMALL>Processed Honey, Molasses</SMALL></SMALL></TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#ffcccc><SMALL>SWEETENERS</SMALL></TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#00cc00><SMALL><SMALL>Raw Honey, Raw Sugar</SMALL></SMALL></TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#009933><SMALL><SMALL>Maple Syrup, Rice Syrup</SMALL></SMALL></TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#006633><SMALL><SMALL>Stevia</SMALL></SMALL></TH></TR><TR><TH align=middle bgColor=#ffff00><SMALL><SMALL>Blueberries, Cranberries, Prunes</SMALL></SMALL></TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#ffff66><SMALL><SMALL>Sour Cherries, Rhubarb</SMALL></SMALL></TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#ccff66><SMALL><SMALL>Plums, Processed Fruit Juices</SMALL></SMALL></TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#ffcccc><SMALL>FRUITS</SMALL></TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#00cc00><SMALL><SMALL>Oranges, Bananas, Cherries, Pineapple, Peaches, Avocados</SMALL></SMALL></TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#009933><SMALL><SMALL>Dates, Figs, Melons, Grapes, Papaya, Kiwi, Berries, Apples, Pears, Raisins</SMALL></SMALL></TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#006633><SMALL><SMALL>Lemons, Watermelon, Limes, Grapefruit, Mangoes, Papayas</SMALL></SMALL></TH></TR><TR><TH align=middle bgColor=#ffff00><SMALL><SMALL>Chocolate</SMALL></SMALL></TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#ffff66><SMALL><SMALL>Potatoes (without skins), Pinto Beans, Navy Beans, Lima Beans</SMALL></SMALL></TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#ccff66><SMALL><SMALL>Cooked Spinach, Kidney Beans, String Beans</SMALL></SMALL></TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#ffcccc><SMALL>BEANS VEGETABLES LEGUMES</SMALL></TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#00cc00><SMALL><SMALL>Carrots, Tomatoes, Fresh Corn, Mushrooms, Cabbage, Peas, Potato Skins, Olives, Soybeans, Tofu</SMALL></SMALL></TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#009933><SMALL><SMALL>Okra, Squash, Green Beans, Beets, Celery, Lettuce, Zucchini, Sweet Potato, Carob</SMALL></SMALL></TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#006633><SMALL><SMALL>Asparagus, Onions, Vegetable Juices, Parsley, Raw Spinach, Broccoli, Garlic</SMALL></SMALL></TH></TR><TR><TH align=middle bgColor=#ffff00><SMALL><SMALL>Peanuts, Walnuts</SMALL></SMALL></TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#ffff66><SMALL><SMALL>Pecans, Cashews</SMALL></SMALL></TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#ccff66><SMALL><SMALL>Pumpkin Seeds, Sunflower Seeds</SMALL></SMALL></TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#ffcccc><SMALL>NUTS SEEDS</SMALL></TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#00cc00><SMALL><SMALL>Chestnuts</SMALL></SMALL></TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#009933><SMALL><SMALL>Almonds</SMALL></SMALL></TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#006633><SMALL><SMALL></SMALL></SMALL></TH></TR><TR><TH align=middle bgColor=#ffff00><SMALL><SMALL> </SMALL></SMALL></TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#ffff66><SMALL><SMALL> </SMALL></SMALL></TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#ccff66><SMALL><SMALL>Corn Oil</SMALL></SMALL></TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#ffcccc><SMALL>OILS</SMALL></TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#00cc00><SMALL><SMALL>Canola Oil</SMALL></SMALL></TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#009933><SMALL><SMALL>Flax Seed Oil</SMALL></SMALL></TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#006633><SMALL><SMALL>Olive Oil</SMALL></SMALL></TH></TR><TR><TH align=middle bgColor=#ffff00><SMALL><SMALL>Wheat, White Flour, Pastries, Pasta</SMALL></SMALL></TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#ffff66><SMALL><SMALL>White Rice, Corn, Buckwheat, Oats, Rye</SMALL></SMALL></TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#ccff66><SMALL><SMALL>Sprouted Wheat Bread, Spelt, Brown Rice</SMALL></SMALL></TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#ffcccc><SMALL>GRAINS CEREALS</SMALL></TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#00cc00><SMALL><SMALL>Amaranth, Millet, Wild Rice, Quinoa</SMALL></SMALL></TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#009933><SMALL><SMALL></SMALL></SMALL></TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#006633><SMALL><SMALL></SMALL></SMALL></TH></TR><TR><TH align=middle bgColor=#ffff00><SMALL><SMALL>Beef, Pork, Shellfish</SMALL></SMALL></TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#ffff66><SMALL><SMALL>Turkey, Chicken, Lamb</SMALL></SMALL></TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#ccff66><SMALL><SMALL>Venison, Cold Water Fish</SMALL></SMALL></TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#ffcccc><SMALL>MEATS</SMALL></TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#00cc00><SMALL><SMALL> </SMALL></SMALL></TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#009933><SMALL><SMALL></SMALL></SMALL></TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#006633><SMALL><SMALL></SMALL></SMALL></TH></TR><TR><TH align=middle bgColor=#ffff00><SMALL><SMALL>Cheese, Homogenized Milk, Ice Cream</SMALL></SMALL></TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#ffff66><SMALL><SMALL>Raw Milk</SMALL></SMALL></TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#ccff66><SMALL><SMALL>Eggs, Butter, Yogurt, Buttermilk, Cottage Cheese</SMALL></SMALL></TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#ffcccc><SMALL>EGGS DAIRY</SMALL></TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#00cc00><SMALL><SMALL>Soy Cheese, Soy Milk, Goat Milk, Goat Cheese, Whey</SMALL></SMALL></TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#009933><SMALL><SMALL>Breast Milk</SMALL></SMALL></TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#006633><SMALL><SMALL></SMALL></SMALL></TH></TR><TR><TH align=middle bgColor=#ffff00><SMALL><SMALL>Beer, Soft Drinks</SMALL></SMALL></TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#ffff66><SMALL><SMALL>Coffee</SMALL></SMALL></TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#ccff66><SMALL><SMALL>Tea</SMALL></SMALL></TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#ffcccc><SMALL>BEVERAGES</SMALL></TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#00cc00><SMALL><SMALL>Ginger Tea</SMALL></SMALL></TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#009933><SMALL><SMALL>Green Tea</SMALL></SMALL></TH><TH align=middle bgColor=#006633><SMALL><SMALL>Herb Teas, Lemon Water</SMALL></SMALL></TH></TR></TBODY></TABLE>http://www.reynoldsoffice.com/ph.htm

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Obviously something is wrong if Skyvike is having that much of a problem with acid reflux when not eating at all. Even with all the "highly acid forming" foods I eat I never have that problem. Only times I ever get it is when I eat highly processed crap.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

On a side note I was curious and have ph strips at home and it has been a few hours since I ate. It has been several months since I tested myself so I thought WTH. My urine is 6.5 and saliva 7.0+ which is completely within a normal healthy range according to the link.

http://www.reynoldsoffice.com/ph.htm

The meats and proteins I am eating are not as acidic as some would have you believe. I think a lot of it might also have to do with the actual protein content meat. One pound of venison or lean beef has only 90g or so of protein. In that one pound of meat is 1500mg of potassium which helps to buffer the body. I shoot for 240g of protein a day. Seems like a lot but it is nothing compared to the amount of carbs an average American or Canadian eats in a day. Since refined carbs are as acidic if not more so then meat it isn't hard to understand why many people tend to be overly acidic.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Hey Guys,

Thanks for all the good advice.

Yeah, the stomach acid and vomiting on days 3-5 were very unexpected. None of the voluminous references I read mentioned this possibility.

Actually, before I started the fruit diet, I correlated the fruits we have available with the list in "Alkalyze or Die" (which is an excellent book, BTW). They are all on the alkaline side of the chart posted by Thorgrim. The only real good alkaline forming veggies I like that we have are green beans so I think I'll stick to the fruit.

The thing about alkalinity of the body is it's tough to measure because most of the things we might measure can be misleading. Urine is an indicator of what we are getting rid of, not the total alkalinity of the body. I don't think my stomach acid problem was a result of an acidic body as all indications were it was pretty alkaline before I started.

It's probably more likely that my stomach just kept wanting food and creating the acid to digest it. I don't know but after two half glasses of guava juice last night and three this morning, I'm feeling lots better.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

About the fasting thing...

Fasting for weight loss makes no sense whatsoever. Your body can't store protein so it will begin to consume muscle tissue after 3 + hours.

You need muscle tissue to maintain metabolic levels. The more muscle tissue you have the less fat you will be.

Muscle volume tapers off as we age so the metabolism slows, and people gain fat.

Fasting is a catastrophe for weight loss. Eating 6 times a day in balanced ratios is the best thing you can do.

Fasting will not improve liver and kidney function, the opposite actually.

Liver and kidneys....detox weapons #1 & #2. Nourish them, don't starve them.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Read "The Science and Fine Art of Fasting" by Dr. Herbert Shelton. Research has shown that muscle tissue loss is <5% in a 30+ day fast. There is a loss of muscle volume due to stored fats within the muscle tissue.

I'm in the 6th day of a 40 day fast right now. I honestly believe that fasting is the best way to restore deteriorated health.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Can I get the ph test strips locally - like in a drug store?

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

for ph I've used the ones from the aquarium store. but i've used ketostix to determine how deep my ketosis was.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

Your body is made of proteins, and whatever protein you eat is gone in 3-4 hours....metabolized. Whatever protein your body needs to continue functioning after 3 - 4 hours comes from burning muscle tissue, not fat within the tissue. Fat is not protein.

Regardless of the %age lost. It's still time you have to spend in the gym getting it (muscle) back in order to be who you used to be from a metabolic standpoint.

As you soon as you start eating again, the fat ratio equation is now even higher against you. You will have a net metabolic decrease from the experience. Full circle. Just looking at it from that perspective alone it's a waste of time in achieving your goals (fat loss with increased health/vigor)

If you want to lose the stuff on your body where the toxins are stored (fat) This is 100% the wrong approach. The body is clever, and designed for survival (fat storage). Starve it, and you will see how well it learns from the experience, and tries to "survive".

When losing toxins (fat) you don't want to kick on the body's survival mechanism. You want the exact opposite. Satiety. 5 - 6 or more small meals throughout the day. This body realizes is does not need to store anything because more energy is coming along very soon.

The best way to restore deteriorated health imo is to hit the gym like an animal, and eat an immaculate diet as organic as possible, and as often as possible, while hitting a net caloric target. There's no easy way out.

After 18 - 21 male testosterone peaks, everything starts to taper off (decline). You have to reclaim it back by stressing the body with physical demands (gym). This tells it..."hey!...wtf? I need all this muscle...better produce more testosterone!". Net effect....you look, feel, and physically get younger, and more virile. :ok:

I see it as a right way, and a wrong way to achieving (some) of the same goals. The hard word route achieves so much more.

Fasting is the easy way out, and it leaves you wasted, and stressed. That is a negative net health effect.

The best book ever written, and very widely recognized is BTFFTM "Burn the fat feed the muscle" Solid information, no gimmicks, just how the body works, and the way it is. Follow it, and you be an entirely different person two years from now, literally, at a molecular level. I call it the 2 year plan (from personal experience). Miraculous transformation can occur in that time frame. Reborn if you will.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

BB- your post comes off as vague to me for whatever reason. I would love to see citations for many of your claims.

I never feel hungry once I'm about 3 days into a fast. What is your experience like with fasting? Would you agree that you don't feel hungry after about 3 days?

I do try to eat 4 or 5 meals per day,I agree satiety is important, and I never feel hungry, and always stuff myself full... if you eat all nutrient dense foods instead of calorie dense foods that 99.9% of americans eat... you will rarely ever feel hungry, and never feel guilty about stuffing yourself full.

I'm very very skeptical about the e-book you recommend, but I'm not going to pay 40 dollars to look through it myself. I looked for a few minutes to try to find some reviews of the book, but I couldn't find any.
You can't blame me for being skeptical of an E BOOK using capital letters and user testimonies and zero facts to sell their book. Since most people here are smart enough not to waste $40 on an e-book, why don't you go into the contents of the e book and some of the most important points you have taken from it.

I think fasting is great for you, but wouldn't necessarily recommend a 40 day fast to the average person. I think most people could benefit greatly from a much shorter fast for 3-7 days. I have found that the real key to flushing toxins out of the body is to eat a diet very very very rich in chlorophyll -- CHLORELLA, which I eat nearly every day, is vital to this process.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

While I agree with you that during water fasts you do burn muscle tissue (the amount is debatable) It isn't always necessary to eat 5-7 meals a day to maximize fat loss.

I have had good success doing intermittent fasting where you don't eat for most of the day and then gorge yourself on one or two large meals in the evening after you work out. It seems that it is more important what you eat and how much you eat rather then over how many meals you spread it. I was able to get down to <8% body-fat using this method and actually gained a little muscle during the dieting process.

Re: I have not had anything to eat in the last 9 days
 

I think I am going to try out the chlorella myself. I have heard good things about it from relatives. I have quite a bit of it at home I just never got into the habit of taking it. What is a good daily dosage?

Also I have been eating lots of cilantro to detox as well and I think it works fairly good too.